Black Tom (everyone in; spoilers for Dead of Winter)

[zedturtle]

Please tell us, what the other letters stand for

Sure, here's a breakdown (originally I was going to post this as a preview, but I'm thinking that I will kind of write things out, sort of like how Imladris is handled in Rivendell):

A. Entrances to the compound. Each has stones set in the ground on the outside, so that the Trolls (or a band of men) could lug the stones in front of the gates, for greater defence.

B. A crouched troll, turned to stone and showing obvious years of wear. A clue to the players about what they might see inside.

C. The young men's house, which kind of serves as a guardhouse as well. No one is here right now, because of the extremely cold weather (this is for Reasons™ in the adventure). The characters might be sent here to sleep, if they get on BT's bad side but he doesn't kick them out.

D. Fallow fields, already harvested in the autumn

E. The old well, now covered by a stone lid.

F. Vegetable garden, with some hearty winter vegetables still growing.

G. The main hall, where BT entertains and eats.

H. Black Tom's separate meeting space, for conferences with fellow farmers and visitors

I. BT and his wife's private rooms

J. The kitchen

K. Main pantry, with stairs down to a root cellar.

L. Family rooms, occupied by descendants of BT and perhaps extended family.

M. Secondary hall, used by those in the family rooms. BT's oldest son is pretty much in charge of this space.

N. Empty rooms, that the heroes might use if they do well meeting with BT.

O. Room occupied by another visitor to the compound.

P. Family graveyard. Many of the graves are small, testifying to the harsh conditions in which to raise a family.

Q. Half-enclosed shed, containing odds and ends, feed for the livestock, etc.

R. The new barn, for the few ponies and cattle that BT keeps.

S. Sheep meadows

T. Pond, for both livestock watering and fishing. Currently frozen over.

U. Orchard of Fruiting Trees (apple trees, really)

V. Apiaries for the beehives. These northern bees don't produce as much honey as Beorn's variety and are more temperamental.

W. The old barn, aka the troll barn.

X. The mill.

Y. Orchard of nut producing trees... also ready source of emergency firewood.

Z. New well... exercise caution.

- - - - - -

As always, eager for questions, comments and concerns.

[Indur Dawndeath]

This is great, thanks a lot.
My players will be in this area. Not sure how they would react to BT, but we'll see.
For now it will not be part of the adventure, but it is nice to set him up for later...
Hope you'll share your idea!

Cheers

[zedturtle]

This is great, thanks a lot.
My players will be in this area. Not sure how they would react to BT, but we'll see.
For now it will not be part of the adventure, but it is nice to set him up for later...
Hope you'll share your idea!

Cheers

Oh yes, this is all for my next adventure "Heart of Winter" which is a sort of sequel to my introductory adventure "Theft of the Moon".

I've got a playtest group going through a DoW rough draft playtest right now, and didn't want to spoil them.

[zedturtle]

Updated the map... I accidentally over-wrote the old map, so the key no longer applies... I will post a new key in a little while.



My players are almost there; I hope things go well (at least one player has noted dissatisfaction with political situations, which half of this adventure is about).

[Amargen]

well, first post ever. and I'm a bit late but bear with me.

I'm struck by how people argue about what Tolkien meant, or implied. Since he went back and re-wrote things so many times it's difficult to say what the final word is in many situations... and clouds 'canon' quite a bit as well. was man meant to be immortal? andreth seemed to think so, but the conversation was a philosophical point that Tolkien was arguing in text, so it's hard to tell if he meant it to be so. how many balrogs were there? read the fall of gondolin and they're all over the place. later he said "no more than a handful".

having put my own world together over the years i know why that is lol...

so, aside from looking for large groups or kingdoms of orcs/trolls/whatnot, I think it'd be possible to have 'friendly' or 'friendlier' types. I would think more so for trolls rather than orcs. trolls seem more to be like whoever is controlling them; if they're on their own they have more latitude in their tiny brains for neutral action if not being driven by some dark will. I don't recall that trolls were made FROM ents, but in mockery of. which could mean anything, but morgoth had a tendency to use sorcery to twist and meld existing forms. obviously whatever he used had horrible hygiene and serious intestinal disorders. the stupidity is probably from inbreeding.

i wouldn't count on the 'nicer' behavior lasting too long, though... something is bound to send them sideways.

orcs appear most likely to search out some other 'lads' to run with and either serve or be served by. I would find it hard to believe they would be easily redeemable if at all. it'd take someone with the patience of manwe to get it done...

and now, ALL that being said, i have always indulged in my love of exceptions to the rule. it's more important to stick to the rules in TOR, as there is a flavour to stick to, but small exceptions here and there like a friendly (ier) troll or spider seems harmless. There's a wide range between actual friendliness and helpful neutrality.

it's not like khamul ran to Rivendell and asked for sanctuary and help destroying his ring, saying he's been a bad boy. THAT sort of thing would strain the fabric of the genre and turn suspended belief to actual disbelief.

just my .02... seemed as good a discussion to drop it in as any.

-Amargen Avargaine

[zedturtle]

Hello Amargen!

Great first post, and I'm not just saying that because I agree with you.

I do think that trolls are different from orcs. Trolls are mockeries of living things, orcs are corrupted beyond the power of the Children to save or reverse the great evil done to them (I personally hold to orcs = corrupted elves, but as you say, Tolkien's thoughts changed quite often on this subject).

I do have one player (who wrote this essay), who I know I might turn off by having domesticated trolls. But I'm still going to present it as a Bad Idea™ that the players will have to work around/with.

[Glorelendil]

Zed finally gave us (the players) permission to read the thread.

First, the denouement was awesome. "OMG there are domesticated (sorta...) trolls in there!"

Angelalex's objections illustrate the problem of trying to 'stat out' everything, not just in the books but even in the game. Thorin, as we all know, put up a good fight against three trolls with nothing but a flaming branch. One interpretation is "Yeah but Thorin is Attribute Level 8 and has Dagger: 6...."

But I prefer to think of the rules as applying only when Player-heroes take action. In other words, a TOR game is a narrated story, just like a written book, and the "rules" are only there to resolve things when players want their characters to participate. If Gandalf fights the Witch King, no dice are rolled: the LM just narrates the outcome. Likewise, Thorin gave the trolls a run for their money because...that makes a better story.

Likewise, if a bunch of non-player farmers want to threaten trolls with pitchforks, the outcome is entirely independent of any game rules. It doesn't matter that if you statted out the farmers and their pitchforks then started rolling dice the trolls would win every time. Rules don't apply when player heroes are not involved.

Finally, I love the idea that trolls might make a deal with farmers. (It actually brought to mind Watership Down.) The famous "Poor little blighter" line reveals that trolls aren't just about wanton, malicious destruction. They're not good, but they're not the incarnation of evil, evil. At least not all of them. They are...trolls. They mostly think about themselves, and their next meal. And the reason it's restricted to some cultures/communities is that it probably takes a lot of compiled knowledge/expertise about how to manipulate them. There's probably an art to beating them with shovels...just enough to cow and shame them, but not enough to anger them.

[Corvo]

Glorelendil, now I want to have a personalized mug with this:

"Trolls: there's an art to beating them with shovels...just enough to cow and shame them, but not enough to anger them"

[Glorelendil]

Glorelendil, now I want to have a personalized mug with this:

"Trolls: there's an art to beating them with shovels...just enough to cow and shame them, but not enough to anger them"

Applies to child-rearing as well.

[zedturtle]

Glorelendil, now I want to have a personalized mug with this:

"Trolls: there's an art to beating them with shovels...just enough to cow and shame them, but not enough to anger them"

Applies to child-rearing as well.

Poor Huck.

(Not really, I'm sure GE is an excellent dad. And very few shovels or pitchforks are in use.)