Black Tom (everyone in; spoilers for Dead of Winter)

[zedturtle]

So I've got a bit of dead time, and I thought talking about Black Tom might be a good way to spend some of it.

I have some questions about him, and I figured that (in addition to my answers), I'd ask y'all what you thought and have come up with.

1. Why is Black Tom called so?

It is due to his hair colour? Or is he from the southern lands and much darker than his neighbours? Is his face or body burned or otherwise darkened? Or is black just his preferred colour or his preferred mood?

2. Does the farm employ Stone Trolls?

I am thinking yes, but I do want BT to come out on the side of good (i.e. worth fighting Viglund/Viglar over). But this gets tricky... orcs are unredeemable by Men, but maybe trolls can be saved?

3. How old is Black Tom?

I am thinking old enough to have young adult children (i.e. a daughter of the age to be wooed, which will focus into the plot) but hale and personally strong and bold. I don't think he could have a leadership position in the West Upper Vales otherwise.

[Angelalex242]

Nothing is redeemable in Tolkien Lore save the free peoples. If it isn't an elf, dwarf, man, or hobbit, it's a lost cause.

[zedturtle]

Nothing is redeemable in Tolkien Lore save the free peoples. If it isn't an elf, dwarf, man, or hobbit, it's a lost cause.

EDIT:

"They would be Morgoth’s greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad (I nearly wrote ’irredeemably bad’; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making - necessary to their actual existence - even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God’s and ultimately good.)"

So Orcs are redeemable, but not by Men.

- - - - -

Then what's going on with the trolls in the Vales?

Are Ents unredeemable? Are Huorns Evil? evil? misunderstood?

[Angelalex242]

Ooops. I forgot ents and huorns. Those are also team good.

Doesn't mean you can redeem a troll though.

[zedturtle]

Ooops. I forgot ents and huorns. Those are also team good.

Doesn't mean you can redeem a troll though.

Well, at the cost of harping on it, the official material (HotW) says that the farmers of the Vales use Stone Trolls as labour, offering food and shelter in exchange for service. So what's up with that?

[Otaku-sempai]

Nothing is redeemable in Tolkien Lore save the free peoples. If it isn't an elf, dwarf, man, or hobbit, it's a lost cause.

Might Saruman's Half-orcs be an exception? Even Tolkien admitted in Letters (Letter 153) that saying that Orcs are irredeemable was going too far*. Trolls might be another matter as they may not have been corrupted beings of flesh but stone brought to life by being merged with evil or corrupted Spirits.

*Edit: I see that you posted about the same thing after I started my reply.

[Angelalex242]

Well...let's put this way. Orcs are less redeemable then Sith Lords.

There are examples of redeemed Sith in Star Wars. There are no examples of redeemed orcs or trolls or anything in Tolkien that I know of.

So the odds are low enough that nobody would ever bother trying. Even the Istari and the Elven Ring Wielders don't bother trying.

[zedturtle]

Well...let's put this way. Orcs are less redeemable then Sith Lords.

There are examples of redeemed Sith in Star Wars. There are no examples of redeemed orcs or trolls or anything in Tolkien that I know of.

So the odds are low enough that nobody would ever bother trying. Even the Istari and the Elven Ring Wielders don't bother trying.

The fact remains that Heart of the Wild clearly states there are (semi-)domesticated trolls. The farmers are not called out as being Evil. So how do we reconcile that?

[Majestic]

What of the idea/theory that Trolls are corrupted Ents (much in the way that Orcs were originally corrupted Elves)? Not sure it has any basis in Tolkien's writings, but I've heard people speculate about that.

[Otaku-sempai]

The fact remains that Heart of the Wild clearly states there are (semi-)domesticated trolls. The farmers are not called out as being Evil. So how do we reconcile that?

The average Troll was not exactly an intellectual giant. Their evil would be the petty sort and they would not necessarily have to be particularly malicious. If they could be kept content then they might not be too much trouble. You still would not want to turn your back on one. I'm wondering how the farmers keep the Trolls fed.