Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

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Indur Dawndeath
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Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Indur Dawndeath » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:50 pm

I know this has been discussed at great length but I am still in doubt of what is enhanced by Denizen of the Dark, because of this note in Darkening of Mirkwood (p. 126)
In gaming terms, this lesser stature is reflected by the
three Nazgûl’s Attribute levels; theirs is a relatively low
value – even if at night it is doubled by their Denizen of the
Dark ability (the physical power and the fear inspired by
the Nazgûl is enormously increased in darkness).
I read this as the TN for fear tests are doubled with the Denizen of the Dark. I know it has been established that only rolls are affected by the ability, but this quote seems to justify, that for the Nazgul, it also applies to Fear TN's. Otherwise there is no increased Fear inspired by the Nazgul in the darkness...

Any comments?
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Falenthal
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Falenthal » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:59 pm

The Fear tests are provoked by the Thing of Terror ability, right?

The text in DoM says:
*The TN for all Fear tests provoked by the Nazgûl is equal
to 10 plus the Attribute level of the most powerful among
them, adding 1 for every additional Ringwraith present.
In this case, the Attribute level (and therefore the difficulty of the Fear test) would be considered double if in darkness. That's how I'd play it.

Hermes Serpent
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Hermes Serpent » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:02 pm

Only the creatures own rolls are adjusted for D0tD as per Francesco. So if the creature rolls for a test or combat then DotD applies. It doesn't apply to a PC according to this statement.

In this thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3261) Francesco (Jan 9th 2015) clarified that Denizen of the Dark only applies to rolls made by the creature.

The revised rules state:
While the creature is in the dark (at night, underground, or
in a dense forest) its Attribute level is doubled as far as all
rolls are concerned (attack and Protection tests included)
I suspect that in playtesting the use of DotD may have changed and it hasn't been updated or Francesco or the relevant author mis-spoke in the section you quoted. (I'd blame the editor :-) )
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Indur Dawndeath
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Indur Dawndeath » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:13 pm

Hermes Serpent
In this thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3261) Francesco (Jan 9th 2015) clarified that Denizen of the Dark only applies to rolls made by the creature.
This is exactly what I meant, that it has been established that it only applies to rolls by the creature, so how is the Fear capability increased in the dark?
I was thinking to give the Nazgul the Black Dread ability from p.68 of Rivendell in darkness, instead of making a special rule for the Nazgul with Denizen of the Dark.
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Indur Dawndeath
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Indur Dawndeath » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:15 pm

It could also just be an error by the editor, but I kind of like the idea, that the Fear projected by the Nazgul IS greater in the darkness... :)
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Hermes Serpent
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Hermes Serpent » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:18 pm

Other possibilities relating to the quoted section regarding Fear.
These work when the Nazgul are incorporeal.

DoM p 126 "When forced to make a Fear test in the presence of an invisible Ringwraith, a companion rolls the Feat die twice and keeps the worst result"

So Thing of Terror needs PC's to make a Fear test (min TN14) every turn until they succeed with a at least one Tengwar (not easy with low Valour) . Rolling two Feat dice and taking the worst makes it harder to pass this test especially as a failure means the PC is Daunted and can't use Hope to add Heart to the roll.

DoM p127 Dreadful Spells: Shadow of Fear - Corruption test
"The Ringwraiths are capable of provoking a terror so great in any Man, Hobbit or Dwarf that the victim becomes an
agent for the Shadow. The spell lasts a number of weeks equal to the highest Attribute level among the Nazgûl
faced by the victim. " Failure adds a Shadow point and 14+ weeks of terror
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Michebugio
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Michebugio » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:52 pm

While the creature is in the dark (at night, underground, or
in a dense forest) its Attribute level is doubled as far as all
rolls are concerned
(attack and Protection tests included)
Well, that will sound pedantic but... Fear tests are rolls, they are just not made by the Nazgul (but the revised rules don't specify that they have to be Nazgul's rolls, they just state "as far as all rolls are concerned").

So, again, being veeery pedantic and strict with the terms... I would say that Denizen of the Dark definitely works with Fear tests from the Nazguls :mrgreen:

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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Hermes Serpent » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:55 pm

Except Francesco specifically said the Denizen of the Dark only applies to creature rolls.
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Michebugio
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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Michebugio » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:02 pm

Hermes Serpent wrote:Except Francesco specifically said the Denizen of the Dark only applies to creature rolls.
Official published Errata/Clarifications or it didn't happen :P

... just joking

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Re: Nazgûl and Denizen of the Dark

Post by Falenthal » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:12 pm

Hermes is right here, no dobut, and I think Indur was also aware of that clarification. In fact, it is because of this words by Francesco that his question arises.

Under this new light, the Nazgûl end up being a little underpowered from how they were originally (i.e. before Francesco's clarification) thought.
For the sake of simplicity, in this special case, I'd rule that Denizen applies to the Attribute level when calculating the TN of the Fear test.

That's NOT what Francesco clarified, but I think it makes sense here to go against the rule.

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