So, will we ever get a Wizard type profession?

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Bradge
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:25 am

Re: So, will we ever get a Wizard type profession?

Post by Bradge » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:33 am

Fortunately Tolkien wrote about that too :) ...
  1. The hröa is always a barrier for communication of thought: First your own one (=getting out from you) and then it has to penetrate another one before reaching the recipient's fëa.
  2. The elvish fëa has much greater control over its hröa than the mannish one (this may the reason for the greater self-healing ability of Elves).
  3. This greater control results in being the hröa a lesser hindrance and thus the greater "magical" ability of the Eldar...
This is the basic idea both by Tolkien and the framework ...
Golden, thank you for your fascinating and fairly clear explanation, only the core of which is quoted above. It makes a great deal of sense to me, and has sent my mind twirling about the ramifications.

Glorelendil
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Re: So, will we ever get a Wizard type profession?

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:03 pm

Some other relevant quotes from Letters

#155
Anyway, a difference in the use of ‘magic’ in this story is that it is not to be come by by ‘lore’ or spells; but is in an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such. Aragorn’s ‘healing’ might be regarded as ‘magical’...while A. is not a pure ‘Man’, but at long remove one of the ‘children of Lúthien’.
This passage (and others) strongly suggest that magic cannot be 'learned' unless it is also 'innate', and in this case 'innate' is synonymous with 'having some Elvish blood'.

#230
...but in any case I imagine that Númenóreans, before their knowledge dwindled, knew more about heredity than other people. To this of course they refer by the common symbol of blood. They recognized the fact that in spite of intermarriages, some characteristics would appear in pure form in later generations. Aragorn’s own longevity was a case in point. Gandalf I think refers to the curious fact that even in the much less well preserved house of the stewards Denethor had come out as almost purely Númenórean.
I interpret this passage to essentially refute that 'purity' of blood-line is relevant. In other words, the innateness is not related to our modern conception of genetics. As long as a Man has an Elvish ancestor, no matter how distant or diluted, it is possible for that Elvishness (or 'Numenorean-ness') to manifest strongly. I'm not suggesting that anybody with a trace of Elvish blood can be a Wizard, but rather that if a narrator wishes to introduce magical ability, there's a mechanism for it that does not break canon. (c.f. Imrahil)

By this interpretation, those of direct royal descent (a purely legal distinction*) are perhaps more likely to display Elvish/Numenorean attributes by dint of the mythical forces that seem to govern Middle Earth, but this is neither guaranteed nor exclusive.

*By which I mean that the great-great-great-great-grandson of the brother of a king has just as much royal blood as his 5th cousin who has directly inherited the throne (assuming no incestuous intermarriage along the way). The greater royalty of his cousin is a matter of inheritance, not blood.
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Amargen
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Re: So, will we ever get a Wizard type profession?

Post by Amargen » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:12 pm

you can also look to Gildor... who perceived the enemy was hunting Frodo. this 'thought searching' seems like magic, yet it is innate. this is part of the Osanwe-Kente mentioned. obviously Denethor had it in some measure... though how much was simply the use of the Palantir is up for judgment. Gandalf made the comment that he (Denethor) could see things 'far away'. I would say it is a combination.

I think we're beyond talking about whether a user of magic could exist; obviously do and will. However, a Wizard? you'd have to think long to add one to your campaign. I hadn't thought much about it until this thread came up :)
-Amargen Avargaine

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