Trolls and Sunlight.

[Hermes Serpent]

I remember in the old forums there was some discussion of the vulnerability of trolls to sunlight due to the wording of the various texts for each type of troll. I've played up until now that only stone trolls were vulnerable to daylight and reading through Ruins I've noticed that my interpretation is also the one favoured by the author if Harder than Stone. Stone trolls are affected by sunlight whereas Hill trolls (and presumably others) are not (although I've only got to p51 so far as I'm relishing every morsel of the work).

[Corvo]

Yeah.
There was a thread on the same subject started from me here, in the new forum.
Now we got a "canon"

[Otaku-sempai]

Tolkien's position was that all Trolls other than the Olog-hai would be considered to be Trolls of the Twilight. As such, they were all vulnerable to Sunlight. I'm not even certain that the Olog-hai were entirely immune if they were freed of Sauron's control:

...Trolls [the Olog-hai] were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them. They spoke little, and the only tongue that they knew was the Black Speech of Barad-dûr. - J.R.R. Tolkien, LotR, Appendix F

[Glorelendil]

Tolkien's position was that all Trolls other than the Olog-hai would be considered to be Trolls of the Twilight. As such, they were all vulnerable to Sunlight. I'm not even certain that the Olog-hai were entirely immune if they were freed of Sauron's control:

...Trolls [the Olog-hai] were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them. They spoke little, and the only tongue that they knew was the Black Speech of Barad-dûr. - J.R.R. Tolkien, LotR, Appendix F

But does not "enduring" the sun mean turning to stone, or does it simply mean not being able to abide it, like most orcs?

[zedturtle]

But does not "enduring" the sun mean turning to stone, or does it simply mean not being able to abide it, like most orcs?

While I think Francesco et al. intentionally left it vague for each table to decide for themselves, I think there's a lot of support for GE's approach... there are mentions of both giants and ogres in The Hobbit and there is no mention of any weakness to the Sun, they might be kin to the trolls. Plus, the narrator doesn't know if Cave Trolls turn to stone; this implies that there is room for doubt.

[Otaku-sempai]

But does not "enduring" the sun mean turning to stone, or does it simply mean not being able to abide it, like most orcs?

I'm not sure that came out the way you intended it to. In the case of common Trolls, the way I read it, they cannot endure the Sun and direct sunlight turns them to stone. The Olog-hai, by contrast, are able to endure sunlight--at least as long as they are protected by the power of Sauron. I'm not sure what should have happened to them after the destruction of the One Ring, but I would guess that their immunity was revoked.

[Glorelendil]

Perhaps I should have written: "Does 'not enduring' the sun..."

In any event, the passage could be interpreted to mean that hill trolls, cave trolls, and the like cannot endure the sun in the sense that they are fearful/weakened/blinded/etc., not that they turn to stone necessarily.

[Otaku-sempai]

In any event, the passage could be interpreted to mean that hill trolls, cave trolls, and the like cannot endure the sun in the sense that they are fearful/weakened/blinded/etc., not that they turn to stone necessarily.

That is a perfectly reasonable interpretation as far as it goes. However, it ignores the larger context of what we learn in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

From The Hobbit:

"Dawn take you all, and be stone to you!" said a voice that sounded like Willam's. But it wasn't For just at that moment the light came over the hill, and there was a mighty twitter in the branches. William never spoke for he stood turned to stone as he stooped; and Bert and Tom were stuck like rocks as they looked at him. and there they stand to this day, all alone, unless the birds perch on them; for trolls, as you probably know, must be underground before dawn, or they go back to the stuff of the mountains they are made of, and never move again. That is what happened to Bert and Tom and William.

And Aragorn in LotR:

'You are forgetting not only your family history, but all you ever knew about trolls,' said Strider. 'It is broad daylight with a bright sun, and yet you come back trying to scare me with a tale of live trolls waiting for us in this glade! In any case you might have noticed that one of them has an old bird's nest behind his ear. That would be a most unusual ornament for a live troll!'

Not that I am criticizing TOR's game designers if they choose to alter this. I'm only pointing out that Tolkien's intent was that only the Olog-hai would not turn to stone (or possibly into icy slag in the case of the Snow-trolls) in sunlight.

[Falenthal]

I still don't own Ruins of the North, but I've always played in Middle-Earth (whatever the game) that all Trolls except Olog-hai turn to stone when the sunlight touches them.

The quotes by Otaku made me always thing this way.

[Bram Corolev]

Perhaps I should have written: "Does 'not enduring' the sun..."

In any event, the passage could be interpreted to mean that hill trolls, cave trolls, and the like cannot endure the sun in the sense that they are fearful/weakened/blinded/etc., not that they turn to stone necessarily.

This is the way we see it in the 'homebrew' lore we use for our game. What makes stone trolls special is they are the breed that turns to stone if exposed to sunlight. They are slightly more intelligent than the other troll breeds, but this lethal weakness to the sun is what keeps them from running rampant. We have no idea if this is correct in the greater sense of Tolkien lore, but it seems the most fun for us in our game so that's what we go with.

We also chose that orcs were once elves, twisted, tortured and corrupted by Morgoth. I know that this idea was abandoned by the professor but without a satisfying more accurate explanation, it is the most satisfying option to go with for us. It makes that race seem sadder in a way.

I know that some will disagree with these ideas. But I guess my point is that without a concrete verdict from the professor himself everyone should choose what version of lore seems the most interesting and fun for their own game.