Approaching the lore of Middle-earth

[DavetheLost]

This discussion has overlooked what is for me the central problem of how to approach Middle Earth lore in the context of The One Ring. That is that the game materials published by Cubicle 7 actually supercede the writings of Tolkien in authority as far as the RPG qua RPG is concerned.

Cubicle 7 are in turn lmited by the terms of their license as to which of the professor's writings they are allowed to draw upon.

That being said, most of us here are Tolkien fans as well as RPG gamers. I enjoy learning more about Tolkien's ideas, writings and sources. The contributions of the Middle Earth and Tolkien scholars in our midst should not be minimized.

We just need to be clear as to whether we are discussing Middle Earth qua Tolkien's creation, or Middle Earth qua TOR. See for example the thread on troll and sunlight for an example of why and how this can matter.

[Tolwen]

This discussion has overlooked what is for me the central problem of how to approach Middle Earth lore in the context of The One Ring. That is that the game materials published by Cubicle 7 actually supercede the writings of Tolkien in authority as far as the RPG qua RPG is concerned.

IMO - yes and no
Yes because as a game line developer/author they create their own canon (as did MERP to a great extent and LotRRPG to a lesser) and no since - for me - I expect every official game line to very carefully adhere to the lore of Middle-earth. If they don't, I'll also say that this or that was made not so well in this respect. What everyone makes in his own campaign then (and considers that by altering the game supplement's content or not) is his/her own decision of course.

Cubicle 7 are in turn lmited by the terms of their license as to which of the professor's writings they are allowed to draw upon.

That touches an interesting topic. As we all know, MERP was more or less able to ignore that due the - in this respect - favourable circumstances back then. LotRRPG already had to deal with the same 'problem' as TOR. Here it is one thing to actually actively refer to the "wider" canon/sources (which TOR can't and MERP often simply did) and observe their content without naming it. The latter is possible and can be found in TOR IMHO. The LotRRPG (with the same 'problem') made almost a whole supplement/sourcebook (on Dwarves) that way and it passed the powers that be.
Quotes and reasoning (if given) for a topic can only come from the Hobbit and LotR of course.

Cheers
Tolwen

[DavetheLost]

Tolwen, I have no argument with you that the game does best to keep to established Middle Earth scholarship. Where C7 cannot directly speak I think they are best to keep silent rather than put in game "canon" which will be wrong scholarship. We do see some cases where they have to pick a side in scholarly debate or the game will not be able to continue.Are there more wizards than just the Five? Do all trolls turn to stone in sunlight?

I argued strongly on the Decipher forums for there being other "wizards" or at least spell casters, and am arguing here against that position. My change of heart is more based on trying to fit the lore to the game, or the game to the lore. I do not agree with C7 entirely that there should not be more magic using options open to players, but that is the canon of the game at present so I will work as an apologist for that position.

At least so far we have not seen an adventure that posits that orcs are decent folk really, they are just misunderstood by the Free Peoples and seem evil because they are oppressed by Sauron.

[Tolwen]

We do see some cases where they have to pick a side in scholarly debate or the game will not be able to continue.Are there more wizards than just the Five? Do all trolls turn to stone in sunlight?

Yes, these questions with quite ambiguous evidence are less problematic IMO, as there is some more grey area here to use.
The few cases where the odds are strongly against the Middle-earth lorepresented in the TOR books so far (in the sense of my earlier mentioned criteria/levels of relevance) are mostly relatively easy to fix for a Loremaster who prefers a background as close as possible to the sources.

I argued strongly on the Decipher forums for there being other "wizards" or at least spell casters, and am arguing here against that position. My change of heart is more based on trying to fit the lore to the game, or the game to the lore.

I see your point and the reasoning, though for my part the preferences are a bit different. For me the criteria laid out above should not only be applied to my own fan-stuff, but I apply the same set (in the same order of relevance) to game products as well. Thus they have to pass this test before I use them in a game or see them as canon

At least so far we have not seen an adventure that posits that orcs are decent folk really, they are just misunderstood by the Free Peoples and seem evil because they are oppressed by Sauron.

Indeed, indeed. And the notorious Gondorian and elven propaganda indoctrinates everyone that they are merciless brutish killers
It begins to become interesting once an orc tries to beg for mercy

Cheers
Tolwen