Estimate Shadow

[Woodclaw]

I'm currently in the process of putting together a group of characters for an mid-tier demo game. I'm working on the basic assumption that they already had a couple of adventures for agrand total of 24 AP and 14-16 XP. Now what I'm trying to figure out how many Hope and Shadow points they could have so far. I don't want them to start at full capacity, since I noticed that this tend to overpower the characters in short term games.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

[Indur Dawndeath]

I would make it random.
Subtract 1d6 (or 2d6 if you want to really limit the hope) Hope and add 1d6 Shadow.

I did this already when we introduced a new player and everyone seemed happy.

Cheers

[Hermes Serpent]

I generally halve the starting hope scores for con/one-shot games but don't usually bother with Shadow as it's one more thing to explain before starting. Alluding to gaining Shadow if you do bad things is usually enough on the subject as too much infodump before starting is a no-no.

[Deadmanwalking]

I generally halve the starting hope scores for con/one-shot games but don't usually bother with Shadow as it's one more thing to explain before starting. Alluding to gaining Shadow if you do bad things is usually enough on the subject as too much infodump before starting is a no-no.

This seems like the way to go, more or less anyway. If you really want to start people with Shadow, do this, then give them two points of Shadow, or only one if you rounded down on Hope, three if you rounded up (has the advantage of giving people some advantage for an odd starting Hope score). That'll start people at a reasonable amount of Shadow.

I mean, any more than 3 points and, IME, people start spending Fellowship Phase Undertakings on dropping it, so that's as much as I would expect people to start with.

[Glorelendil]

I'd include a range. Maybe give Convention players a chance to play a character who is darned close to Miserable.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd include a range. Maybe give Convention players a chance to play a character who is darned close to Miserable.

A Dwarf with 5 Hope and 3 Shadow qualifies, and is very possible with the suggestion I made.

[Blubbo Baggins]

Actually, while you can lower Hope for the PCs, I strongly suggest this simple rule change. I did it for a one-shot game and it resulted in lots of fun!

For any Corruption test, an Eye result on the fate die causes a Bout of Madness (immediately or at a more opportune time).

This way, while PCs will gain some Shadow (Or can start with some), you can demonstrate a fun bout of madness in a game where you wouldn't normally see one.

[zedturtle]

I am not at all a fan of 'in order to get the true TOR experience, you must be Miserable and have a Bout of Madness' idea. True, they are fun for LMs to get a chance to mess with the characters for a while, but that works best when you've known the players for a while and can thus be pretty specific in your taunts and bad actions.

[Woodclaw]

I am not at all a fan of 'in order to get the true TOR experience, you must be Miserable and have a Bout of Madness' idea. True, they are fun for LMs to get a chance to mess with the characters for a while, but that works best when you've known the players for a while and can thus be pretty specific in your taunts and bad actions.

I don't aim to make the characters automaticaly Miserable, but rather to make the player a bit less keen on spending Hope when there's no need for it. I think that the ability to accept filures and narrate them is part of the RPG experience but, more often than not, players tend to forget this.

[Blubbo Baggins]

I am not at all a fan of 'in order to get the true TOR experience, you must be Miserable and have a Bout of Madness' idea. True, they are fun for LMs to get a chance to mess with the characters for a while, but that works best when you've known the players for a while and can thus be pretty specific in your taunts and bad actions.

I agree with you (you don't need Miserable/Bouts of Madness to have a true TOR experience).
That being said, when two PCs had a bout of madness at the same time, triggered by the huge gem that is a gift for the Lord of the Eagles (Marsh Bell), it was such a funny/fun moment. The PCs fought a round or two of combat against each other until the other PCs broke it up and they both came to their senses. The only real consequence was a loss of Endurance, just like a Hazard might have caused. In effect, for a short game, it enables a way to have another complication introduced to make it slightly harder, because as the OP was asking about, how do you manage things when PCs have no incentive to save Hope?