Regarding healing and other questions

[Bokvakk]

I am an aspiring GM, and I have some questions regarding different aspects of the one ring, and how I should help my players to become better and have a better time. Let's get straight to it:

1)How should I mimic the sad feeling a hero would get the first time he killed another man? Should I trea it as Anguish, should I give shadow points? How do I know the difference of killing in self defence and murder? And should I treat a human enemy with 0 endurance to be killed, or just knocked out?
2)Is it possible for a player-hero to heal themselves, to regain endurance without a rest?
3) How can I krep my players attention in the game? Some of my players complain that the others are not serious enough.

That was everything for this time, but expect to see me again!
//Bokvakk

[zedturtle]

I am an aspiring GM, and I have some questions regarding different aspects of the one ring, and how I should help my players to become better and have a better time. Let's get straight to it:

1)How should I mimic the sad feeling a hero would get the first time he killed another man? Should I trea it as Anguish, should I give shadow points? How do I know the difference of killing in self defence and murder? And should I treat a human enemy with 0 endurance to be killed, or just knocked out?

In theory, any enemy that is not reduced to zero Endurance and sounded in the same blow is just unconscious, not killed. In my game I don't hesitate to outright kill Evil creatures when only one of these conditions is met. But for men who act evil, there should be most of the time a chance to bring them to justice and Shadow points for those who slay defenseless enemies.

I am simplifying a bit, see my "evil men vs Evil Men" thread a few pages back.

2)Is it possible for a player-hero to heal themselves, to regain endurance without a rest?

For clarity's sake, healing is about whether a Wound is Treated or not; that does impact Endurance recovery however. Woodmen have Staunching Song and everyone gets to take a rest after a battle; otherwise you just need time.

3) How can I krep my players attention in the game? Some of my players complain that the others are not serious enough.

Man, that's a huge subject. I can't do it justice in the time I've got right now. I guess the first thing to so is set expectations upfront. But remember y'all are there to have fun, so you can't have your serious face on 100% of the time.

That was everything for this time, but expect to see me again!
//Bokvakk[/quote]

[Deadmanwalking]

1)How should I mimic the sad feeling a hero would get the first time he killed another man? Should I trea it as Anguish, should I give shadow points?

Anguish seems the most appropriate way to handle this. Automatic Shadow is pretty much restricted to acts that are morally wrong, and it's pretty clear that, while unfortunate, killing enemies in battle or while defending oneself isn't considered inherently morally wrong in Tolkien's works.

Also, it should probably only come up the first time a character kills someone. Not the first time they do it in play. After all, a veteran of the Battle of Five Armies has probably killed before, and might be a little more case-hardened.

How do I know the difference of killing in self defence and murder?

The same way you do in real life?

I mean...if you're killing people who are just going about their business, that's murder. If you're killing people who are trying to kill you that's self defense. If you're scouting out the enemy in a war-type situation and meet them and fight...that's war. As is killing foes in open battle. Now, if you're fighting as the aggressor against an innocent group, those last two become much less acceptable, obviously.

But really...this isn't that hard a line to draw.

And should I treat a human enemy with 0 endurance to be killed, or just knocked out?

I'd have them die, same as I'd do for orcs. Narratively, it seems to make more sense, or there start being a lot of insoluble issues of what to do with prisoners. Also...swords are sharp and should generally not knock out more people than they kill, from a realism perspective. Ditto axes, spears, and bows.

Now, if a player specified they wanted to take a particular foe alive, I'd be inclined to allow the attempt, either though an Intimidate Foes action to make them surrender, or possibly taking a damage penalty to 'hit with the flat of the blade' or some such.

2)Is it possible for a player-hero to heal themselves, to regain endurance without a rest?

They regain Heart in Endurance after a battle if given time to rest just a little. They recover some during battle from the Inspire Comrades action. Several Virtues allow some additional recovery in various ways.

Other than that? No. Resting the night gets you back some every day and that's it.

3) How can I krep my players attention in the game? Some of my players complain that the others are not serious enough.

This is a difficult question and depends in large part on the nature of your group and how they interact. I really don't think we can give meaningful advice on this topic without more of that kind of information.

[Glorelendil]

Here is the discussion thread that Zed mentioned:
Evil Men vs. evil men

The boundaries can be rather grey, especially in Middle Earth.

[Majestic]

1) The allocation of Shadow helps, if it's the first time in the character's life they've had to kill. But if the player is struggling to know how they should feel, you as LM could remind him of how he feels from time to time. Perhaps he has a nightmare, or seems a little withdrawn. Not that long ago in my supers RPG a newer hero accidentally killed his first antagonist, and it was totally an accident. Without any prompting from me, the player really played up how despondent his PC was, withdrawing from the group, considering retirement, etc. Every character doesn't need to feel this way, but it can be a realistic way of playing through the emotions of someone who was forced to slay a foe for the first time (I imagine most of us in real life wouldn't be able to shrug and get on with life so easily after doing so).

2) As others have said, "healing" (which could be done on oneself) is a bit different from regaining Endurance, and healing will simply treat a wound. Generally speaking, Endurance tends to be recovered slowly, over time (with a few exceptions). The Revised Rulebook has a really handy chart to make it easy for everyone on p. 132. One of the biggest boosts one will get is pausing to 'catch one's breath' (at least half an hour) after combat, after which a hero gets back a number of Endurance Points equal to their Heart rating.

3) We do need more info, but here's a few general ideas. Allow your players the chance to goof off and have fun. Perhaps some time at the start of the session, or during a break part-way through. By doing this, you can hopefully ratchet up the tension during thrilling, exciting scenes to draw everybody into the action. Done well, your players will be totally engaged and thrilled. There's a lot of things you can do to help with this. Music, lighting, pacing, props. Let us know more of what the specifics are and we can probably give more help.

[jacksarge]

Just some thoughts about question three.
I run a group which until our most recent adventure, consist entirely of sixteen year old lads - my son and his friends. It can be hard to get them to take things seriously at times, and even harder to get them to do much roleplaying in encounters. The times when they have the most to say, and are especially happy to narrate their successes, is during the combat - that can get quite descriptive.
I guess you need to look at what they hope to get out of the game, and what you hope to get out of it? Maybe you could find a group online to join in with as a player, on Roll20 or similar- whilst still doing your LM thing. That way you could feel you are getting more out of the game than you are as an LM. I have thought of doing this myself, but time can be a factor.
In our latest adventure I have been fortunate enough to have an experienced role-player join our group, I'm hoping that he will provide some guidance and inspiration to the lads.
Like the other contributors have commented, if you could give some more info regarding question three it would help.

[DavetheLost]

If you have players complaining to you about the behavior of other players at the gaming table this will cause problems in the long run.

Everybody is there to have fun, but "fun" is not the same for everybody. Some enjoy deep, imersive roleplaying. Others may just want to roll dice and kill monsters. Still others may just want to joke around and socialize with their friends. None of these are wrong or bad in themselves, but can cause friction when half the group wants to roleplay deeply in character and the other half wants to talk about last night's football.

A brief discussion with teh whole table about what people are expecting from the game, and what sort of behavior is appropriate may be in order.

My last group couldn't get in the Tolkien mood at all, so TOR was a struggle. We changed games and everyone, including me as GM, is much happier.

[Bokvakk]

Thank you very much, everyone! All your replies has been very helpful, and I think question number one and numer two has been solved.