Reproductive cycle of Dúnedain?

[Glorelendil]

You'd think that longer-living people would have more children, not fewer. And they'd all grow up knowing several to many generations of ancestors. "Yeah, my great-great-great-grandmother is still pretty fierce with a longsword."

I'm working on the backstory for a ranger character and these considerations have come up. So what's the deal? Estel was what...20?...when he was considered an adult? So their childhood/adolescence doesn't scale with their lifespan.

I wanted to have a grandmotherly figure as part of the story, but I realized an actual grandmother...a father's mother...would likely still be young and hale.

Thoughts?

[zedturtle]

Looking at the relevant charts, it seems like most chieftains of the Dúnedain had their first child at the age of 60. Average age is probably 120-180; 200+ would be unusual.

We could extend out from what little we know (mostly based on Aragorn) and say that children might be considered adults at the age of 20 but they are expected to engage in errantries for at least a couple of decades before settling down and raising a family.

So, a grandmother might easily be 120 years older than her grandchild; possibly hale but certainly has already seen more than half of her life play out.

[Tolwen]

You'd think that longer-living people would have more children, not fewer. And they'd all grow up knowing several to many generations of ancestors. "Yeah, my great-great-great-grandmother is still pretty fierce with a longsword."

I'm working on the backstory for a ranger character and these considerations have come up. So what's the deal? Estel was what...20?...when he was considered an adult? So their childhood/adolescence doesn't scale with their lifespan.

I wanted to have a grandmotherly figure as part of the story, but I realized an actual grandmother...a father's mother...would likely still be young and hale.

Thoughts?

Tolkien notes several times that the Númenóreans (both in Númenor and in exile) had relatively few children. It seems that this is either a conscious decision or a (by-)product of the grace of the longer life. Ifyou look closer at the life-dates for the kings provided by Tolkien (primarily in the HoMe12 and reproduced in OM6 and 12), you can see that they had their children at an age that is equivalent to a normal human's of late twenties or early thirties (i.e. their "biological" age). Thus in Númenor, the early kings had their first child at around age 90 (i.e. a biological age of somewhere around 30).
This tradition continued in Middle-earth as well. In the timeframe of TOR (and 200-300 years before that), the royal line in Eriador had their children (if we assume that the following heir was mostly the first-born) at an age of around 50-70, which corresponds to a biological age of about early to mid-thirties.
Aragorn's mother Gilraen wedded Arathorn II at an extraordinary early age according to the customs of her people (at age 22; and Arathorn was then 34) and had her child (Aragorn) also at a very unusually early age of 24.

Considering this, they were biologically able to reproduce at an age comparable to normal humans, but their cultural norms (and perhaps biology due to their extended span?) prevented them from doing so except under rare circumstances which were usually noted well (and perhaps with a deal of frowning unless there was very good reason for it).

We also have to differentiate between Dúnedain of the direct royal line (who always had a longer lifespan) and the normal Dúnedain. In the 30th century of the Third Age, Númenóreans of direct royal descent had a lifespan of about 155 and that had been very stable for the past 500 years. Aragorn is a very rare exception in many respects and thus not well suited for judging the norm. From this we can deduce a lifespan of normal northern Dúnedain of around 110-120 at that time. The details and reasoning for that can be found in the aforementioned Issues of OM.

Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Glorelendil]

You'd think if they were dying out they'd encourage less errantry and more gallantry. KnowhatImean?

Thanks, Tolwen and Zed, that helps.

[Otaku-sempai]

Gilraen was about thirty-four years younger than her husband Arathorn II. An age difference of around thirty years between husband and wife might have been typical for the Dunedain--at least for their chieftains.

[Lugija]

You'd think if they were dying out they'd encourage less errantry and more gallantry. KnowhatImean?

Now I'm imagining a Dunedain chief telling Elrond his new brilliant plan: "Kids. A lot of kids. Elven and men. I mean, one against a hundred battle odds are heroic, sure, but unconvinient."
"No."
"It's like you are always waiting for some future savior. Hey is that your daughter? Weird that I never saw her when I was growing up here."
"...yes."

[Angelalex242]

Elrond: ...Uh. Now now! You know the drill. You've gotta sit on the throne of Gondor to claim my daughter. And off that Sauron guy while you're at it. If you have a hobbit do that second part, I'll let it slide, but you've definitely gotta be on the throne.

[Amargen]

Think about what happened, both in Arnor and the Wilderness of Mirkwood. Plague, wars, genocidal wars... orcs don't leave survivors who survive their slaughter and torment. when the Fellowship went through Eriador they found... nothing.

think of what happened to Arnor as like the genocide of the Nazis, just mobile. the Angmarim were defeated nearly to the last, but not before they'd emptied the land of the living. that is why the Dunadain were so few. finding a suitable bride would be difficult... must be of true blood, etc.

for Elrond to tell them to have more children would have the reply "we're doing what we can!". Fecundity played a strong part in the Writings. Which is why Man would eventually overcome. they breed fast, raise kingdoms and see the same fall. raise others on the bones.

just my thoughts