Status on next TOR book?

[LOTR_Nerd]

The easiest way to balance Dunedain and Noldor adventurers would be to give them a cultural fate that is akin to a flaw in other games this would balance out the group another way is to throw more orcs then normal after the enemy discovers that a Dunedain or Noldor are adventuring abroad.

[SirKicley]

another way is to throw more orcs then normal after the enemy discovers that a Dunedain or Noldor are adventuring abroad.

The cultural flaw may be a viable option. I disagree completely with the idea of simply making the enemy stronger against the party - the rest of the fellowship then pays the price for one player wanting to play such a character. If the whole group on the other hand were such characters, that's another matter. Regardless, making non-noldor (or other player character types with obvious similar advantages) player/characters suffer greater peril to account for another player's choice of playing such a character that would be considered overpowered in comparison is very poor game design. By making such a suggestion in the first place already admits that there is a great imbalance between the playable cultures; and this is what should be avoided for a fair and fun RPG to succeed.

There was a reason so many people switched to drow in D&D 2nd edition, or in Dungeons and Dragons Online. As soon as they were available, players recognized their obvious power in relation to the other races and pushed to play them. Few RPGers enjoy playing a squire to another player character's champion.

As written, I feel TOR is the most balanced for player characters of any game I've played - though there's some questions I have raised about the Lake-Men's abilities; which for what it's worth is usually the case - expansion material usually winds up have some features that appear by comparison more favorable or attractive than the original content. This is also true for most video games, too.

Robert

[LOTR_Nerd]

Sir. Kicley what I meant was the whole the enemy sending greater numbers at them would only be until the Noldor or Dunedain "threat" was either neutralized or captured also this is an in lore way to deal with Noldor and Dunedain since those two cultures have greater power then lesser cultures.Also as a mainly dwarf player I would welcome the challenge since more orcs being thrown around means a greater chance to prove my valor.Also what are you going to do when the Rohirrim are thrown into the mix since they would be more powerful then the others because they fight on horseback.

[SirKicley]

Also what are you going to do when the Rohirrim are thrown into the mix since they would be more powerful then the others because they fight on horseback.

to which I opine that having a horse to care after creates its own set of hindrances. furthermore yes he may fight better than many on horseback but I'm sure a tradeoff will be not as well on foot and there are many conceivable situations where horseback fighting is not possible.


furthermore its a fair assessment to say that a hobbit scholar is usually not as effective in combat directly as say a dwarf slayer or be beorning warden. however that hobbit has many other areas that excels at that the dwarf or be beorning does not. very little of the game is combat in fact. a character designed to only fight will sadly only shine on rare occasions. while a combat oriented character shines in DnD this is not so in TOR. I am confident that in regards to a rohirrim there are many ways to balance their inclusion - far more than a noldor at least.

[Southron]

Personally, I do not mind unbalanced races in the game as it reflects ME. My first choices for a character would be a scholarly type from Breeland or Gondor, a Ranger of the North, or to really stretch it a character based off of my username here. For me it is not having the character with the highest stats mechanically, etc..but a character I would like to play in the world. Luckily.the majority of my friends have a similar mindset.

However, I also understand that many have the MIN/MAX urge. It was a "problem" back when PnP rpg's were dominant and I think that now with video games the "problem" is far worse. I assume it just a matter of what one enjoys more.

I did find that the Cinematic Unisystem fan version struck a nice balance between the two. The Elves, especially the Noldor, were more powerful; however, they had a higher initial character point cost. The other races to a varying degree had lesser initial character point cost meaning that they could pick more qualities than the higher point cost races could.

So while the Noldor could be faster, stronger, more noble, my Bree scholar could have several points in lucky, or charmed life, or more fate points etc.. So there is a balance, though the Noldor are still badasses ," ...small hands..." could still move the world.

As for the Rohirrim, their horses may be written up like the Hound of the Woodmen.

The Noldor and Dunadain may get fewer hope points as their time in the world is fading.

TOR could get around the Noldor by presenting it as an optional class.

The fan based write ups for the Rangers and the two for the Noldor on the old forum board were IIRC done with TOR templates and seemed to work out quite well.

I just tried to link them here from the old boards but couldn't perhaps someone can succeed were I failed.

Southron Loremaster

[Southron]

Ok, here we go!

Rangers: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/795 ... 0North.pdf

Eldar: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2850 ... 0Eldar.pdf

High Elves: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5188 ... 0Elves.pdf

[Mim]

Thomas did a great job on these. While we're on the subject (& for my two pence), I don't envy Francesco, Gareth, or whoever ends up writing Elves for the game. You'll inevitably meet people who want to play Noldor for their uniqueness & power, & it will be difficult to balance them. Consequently, I suspect that a certain degree of min/maxing will happen for many people & LMs will experience a tough time merging them into the game

C7 may address these issues with Elves of Rivendell (TBC) - I can't wait for this book! They can introduce Sindar without canon problems, though they're still rather powerful & rare. Some may have lived in Rivendell. In addition, the writers might be able to do something wild like have Cirdan the Shipwright dispatch a non-Noldo Elf of Lindon to meet with Elrond (which would be kinda cool & open those cultures up for players). Other than that, however, I can't imagine how Noldo player-heroes won't be so overwhelming as to disrupt the carefully crafted balance of the game.

I think they summarize it well on pp 4 & 65 of TfW (spoiler alert):

Those Who Tarry No Longer
The company is honoured beyond measure when asked to escort an Elf-woman across Wilderland to the High
Pass.

When Irimë seeks the solace of the Grey Havens, Middle-earth will be forever diminished.

"Honoured beyond measure" & "forever diminished" say it all

[SirKicley]

Well said, Mim.


Thanks for the links, Southron.

[Otaku-sempai]

Well, in terms of Callings, I expect the sons of Elrond would be Slayers (Orc-). However, the typical Elf or Rivendell would more likely be a Scholar. Backgrounds could be quite varied: Warrior, Healer, Minstrel, Crafter, Herb-master. Keeper of Lore. There is no need for every Eldar to be a powerful warrior.

[Mim]

Thank you Sir Kickley.

Good call on Elrond's sons Otaku-sempai. I agree with the Slayer calling, considering their mother's 'torment' at the hands of the Orcs.

Ditto for the Elven backgrounds.

Some of the Eldar will make extraordinary warriors - Glorfindel will be a one-Elf army