Words of the Wise questions

[Meoring]

I’m reading Words of the Wise scenario and I have some questions I’d like to throw in for your consideration:

1. What is the origin of orcs attacking heroes during hunt? Do they hail from Misty Mountains as Radagast says after seeing pieces of orcs’ equipment brought him by PCs? Or do they hail from Mountains of Mirkwood as this passus from page 9 would suggest:

‘If the characters ask if the king knows why the orcs are suddenly ranging far to the south of the Mountains of Mirkwood (…)

Whatever their origin might be however, do this really matter for the scenario?

2. Why orcs attack Woodland Hall? The first time PCs encounter them is near Rhosgobel. Then Radagast sends them to negotiate Thranduil’s support and after their return Radagast leads Woodmen north to Woodland Hall where orcs launch the attack and battle ensues. Why did they choose Woodland Hall? Why not Rhosgobel or Woodmen Town (where Lamp of Balthi – the Woodmen’s secret that keeps darkness at bay - shines)?

3. While on their way to Woodland Realm, soon after PCs enter Mirkwood through Forest Gate an elven patrol halts them. When they show Radagast’s letter to the elves they are invited to follow the patrol and wait for the arrival of an envoy in a secret location. Question is why elves tell them that they are going to meet an envoy and not the king (while ‘the envoy’ is no less than king himself). Why all this masquerade? I cant’s see any story twist behind this disinformation.

4. Scenario hints some agenda behind increased orcs’s activity in the area of Woodmen settlements. There are some ‘winged things coming and going in the mountains’ mentioned and the Beast that might stay behind the attacks. What are these winged things and the Beast? Are they Nazguls and Werewolf of the Mirkwood? Should these agenda be understood in the general context of darkening of the Mirkwood (as it is presented in the DoM campaign)?

Please share your thoughts on my points or add your own, I would be happy to read about your approach to this scenario.

[Falenthal]

I’m reading Words of the Wise scenario and I have some questions I’d like to throw in for your consideration:

1. What is the origin of orcs attacking heroes during hunt? Do they hail from Misty Mountains as Radagast says after seeing pieces of orcs’ equipment brought him by PCs? Or do they hail from Mountains of Mirkwood as this passus from page 9 would suggest:

‘If the characters ask if the king knows why the orcs are suddenly ranging far to the south of the Mountains of Mirkwood (…)

Whatever their origin might be however, do this really matter for the scenario?

2. Why orcs attack Woodland Hall? The first time PCs encounter them is near Rhosgobel. Then Radagast sends them to negotiate Thranduil’s support and after their return Radagast leads Woodmen north to Woodland Hall where orcs launch the attack and battle ensues. Why did they choose Woodland Hall? Why not Rhosgobel or Woodmen Town (where Lamp of Balthi – the Woodmen’s secret that keeps darkness at bay - shines)?

3. While on their way to Woodland Realm, soon after PCs enter Mirkwood through Forest Gate an elven patrol halts them. When they show Radagast’s letter to the elves they are invited to follow the patrol and wait for the arrival of an envoy in a secret location. Question is why elves tell them that they are going to meet an envoy and not the king (while ‘the envoy’ is no less than king himself). Why all this masquerade? I cant’s see any story twist behind this disinformation.

4. Scenario hints some agenda behind increased orcs’s activity in the area of Woodmen settlements. There are some ‘winged things coming and going in the mountains’ mentioned and the Beast that might stay behind the attacks. What are these winged things and the Beast? Are they Nazguls and Werewolf of the Mirkwood? Should these agenda be understood in the general context of darkening of the Mirkwood (as it is presented in the DoM campaign)?

Please share your thoughts on my points or add your own, I would be happy to read about your approach to this scenario.

You're concerns are well pointed. I'll tell you my own answers to them:

1) It isn't important in the adventure itself, although I considered when running it (in the context of the Darkening campaign) that they were a first group from Fernbridge Castle that was sent to test the strenghts of the Free People. In the Darkening we know (from Mogdred's words in the Folk-Moot) that orcs and goblins have been meeting at Fernbridge Castle for a time.

2) I didn't find the logic to this, also. I made the attack happen to Rhosgobel. After all, it's the southernmost settlement of the Free People.

3) I think it serves the idea that the Elvenking doesn't trust anyone until he's seen proof of their allegiance. He didn't trust the dwarves when they said they only wanted food and water. Why should he trust from the beginning a group of unknowns that claim to come in the name of Radagast?

4) I think that hints are a sort of background noise (or darkness) to make the adventure more interesting. They might be the Vampire and the Werewolf, both dwelling in the Mountains of Mirkwood, but it's not important to the adventure itself.

Just my 2 cents.

[Deadmanwalking]

For #2, I thought the answer was obvious when playing it:

Radagast the Brown lives in Rhosgobel and, as you note, the Lamp of Balthi is in Woodman Town.

The first, makes attacking a fortified town in the woods borderline suicidal (I dunno about you, but I'd generally assume that attacking wizards at home without potent magical support is sorta an 'instant loss' situation), and the Lamp of Balthi might easily protect the location it's stored at in some manner.

[Meoring]

Falenthal,

I'm not sure if I would lean toward option of this raid being launched from Fenbridge Castle. You mentioned Mogdred who joins folk moot at Rhosgobel in 2948 (DoM). He demands tribute and a seat in the councils of the Woodmen and in exchange offers protection from orcs residing in Fenbridge. He says: 'You (...) would be long dead if it were not for our protection. Darkness returns to the forest, had you but eyes to see it (...)'. I imagine most LMs (like me) launches Words of the Wise as introductory scenario, so in most cases this is before running DoM (my case). If so, then this terrible battle for Woodland Hall (or Rhosgobel if it fits better) would happen prior the events of 2948. Then Mogdred's visit would be completely nonsesne as Woodmen have already experienced his 'protection' - they would simply deride him at best (just imagine him on folk moot emptying his two sacks full of orcs' heads and soon after Woodmen laughing and saying 'you brought us some dozens of orc heads, but look we cut them hundreds already while under your 'protection' Begone!

Fenbridge being the base of operations of orcs our heroes are dealing with is feasible only if WotW scenario is being run after folk moot in Rhosgobel AND only in case of Woodmen rejecting Mogdred's demands.

If not Fenbridge then Mountains of Mirkwood remains. With this option I also have an issue. I can't think of any agent behind this attack. If I run WotW before 2951 when Ring Wraiths enter Dol Guldur there are no force able to unite and direct orcs (Werewolf is no leader, it's a Beast released long ago and left alone by Sauron). I need someone to dominate and direct orcs because I like to think of them as of race of slaves, uncapable of coordinated action on their own. So I see two options here:

a) To launch Words of the Wise after 2951 and make one of the Nazguls responsible for the attack. In this case orcs have their base of operations in Mountains of Mirkwood and attack Woodland Hall because it's strategic move to attack closest settlement first - incidents our heroes participated in and witnessed during hunt in Rhosgobel was just a warm-up and foretaste of real trouble Woodland Hall will be in very soon. Radagast correctly evaluated the situation (with little help of his furry friends perhaps) and this is why he asked elves for help and moved north to reinforce Woodland Hall where core enemy forces gathered.

b) I want to play WotW now (2946 in my campaign) not waiting until 2951. Therefore exploring trope of these orcs being remnants of survivors of Battle of Five Armies and giving them some orc leader powerful enough to organize them would do the trick. But this would be just a large scale orc raid (and in this case Rhosgobel would be their random target) which would exclude this adventure from broader context of DoM campaign.

Deadmanwalking,

On attacking Wizard as being suicidal endeavour - I totally agree, but I would doubt if orcs would be able to associate Wizard with devastating power, moreso, I'm quite sure they would have hard time just with recognizing one as such. I mean, look at Gandalf - he's a Wizard of course - how much of his true nature is known to common folk of Middle Earth? How Hobbits perceive him? Or people of Gondor or Rohan? They suspect nothing of his true nature and what he is capable of I daresay. Only Elves knows anything about him. And orcs? What they could know?

Having said that, I wouldn't exclude Rhosgobel as a potential target of orc's attack only because Wizard dwells there.

[Falenthal]

b) I want to play WotW now (2946 in my campaign) not waiting until 2951. Therefore exploring trope of these orcs being remnants of survivors of Battle of Five Armies and giving them some orc leader powerful enough to organize them would do the trick. But this would be just a large scale orc raid (and in this case Rhosgobel would be their random target) which would exclude this adventure from broader context of DoM campaign.

You can use Ghor, the Despoiler, from Darkness in the Marshes, as the leading Orc. But he would probably keep in the back of the battle, and run at the first sight of defeat. Players might just have a glimpse of a huge orc with a big helm, featuring a Red Eye. It could be after this failed attack that the Nazgûl takes command of the North and forces stealth and cunning on Ghor and the orc forces that reunite in Dwimmerhorn and Fernbridge Castle.

About Mogdred and his defense.. well, you have a point there.
Other option might be that the attack of WotW was the first attack by Orcs to the Woodmen settlements and it took Mogdred by surprise, so he couldn't stop them. Or perhaps more Orcs would have reached the settlement if not for Mogdred's intervention, thus overriding the town. Or Mogdred was just keeping back, seeing who was stronger, and deciding then which side's support to look for.

[Majestic]

Another possibility would be to have them be Orcs (possibly left over from the Battle of Five Armies) from the various parts of Mirkwood (mostly the Mountains) serving the Gibbet-King (from Tales).


Which more of less fits with the Ghor idea.

[Deadmanwalking]

Deadmanwalking,

On attacking Wizard as being suicidal endeavour - I totally agree, but I would doubt if orcs would be able to associate Wizard with devastating power, moreso, I'm quite sure they would have hard time just with recognizing one as such. I mean, look at Gandalf - he's a Wizard of course - how much of his true nature is known to common folk of Middle Earth? How Hobbits perceive him? Or people of Gondor or Rohan? They suspect nothing of his true nature and what he is capable of I daresay. Only Elves knows anything about him. And orcs? What they could know?

Having said that, I wouldn't exclude Rhosgobel as a potential target of orc's attack only because Wizard dwells there.

I would.

I wouldn't expect them to recognize the danger if they met him in the woods, but Rhosgobel has been the lair of a wizard for some time. I'd be shocked if the orcs don't tell scary stories about those orcs who've gotten too close and never returned. And the Necromancer certainly would've known, and he was around what, 10 years ago? Less? It doesn't seem unlikely that they might've picked up 'don't invade Rhosgobel' from him before his vanishing.

In short, I'd expect that while orcs might not know exactly why such an attack was a bad idea, they'd have some idea that it was.

[Falenthal]

I wouldn't expect them to recognize the danger if they met him in the woods, but Rhosgobel has been the lair of a wizard for some time. I'd be shocked if the orcs don't tell scary stories about those orcs who've gotten too close and never returned. And the Necromancer certainly would've known, and he was around what, 10 years ago? Less? It doesn't seem unlikely that they might've picked up 'don't invade Rhosgobel' from him before his vanishing.

In short, I'd expect that while orcs might not know exactly why such an attack was a bad idea, they'd have some idea that it was.

That's why they need a strong leader to push them do such things: either Ghor or the Gibbet King. That's what a good leader does, overcome the fears of the troops and organize them into an attacking force.

[Meoring]

Where can I find Information on Ghor? Tales of the Wilderland?

[Falenthal]

Where can I find Information on Ghor? Tales of the Wilderland?

Yes, in the part of the temple of Darkness in the Marshes.