Minions Dropping Immediately when they reach 0 Endurance

[Glorelendil]

I suppose it depends on whether you interpret "turns" to represent a literal ordering in game time. That is, if you go first in the round it means you are actually attacking first. Alternately, you might assume simultaneous action, with order being merely a bookkeeping convenience. In that case you would probably want to minimize the mechanical effects of order.

Are there any hints in RAW as to how turn order is meant to be interpreted in TOR? Bookkeeping convenience, or literal sequence?

[Rue]

This is fascinating--I hadn't thought about Initiative meaning that you got to swing first, rather than the bookkeeping interpretation; but if you were used to seeing it as "going first" then I can see how it'd be annoying to suddenly have that goblin or orc take a whack at you with their sword when you think you've taken them out. I think for myself I prefer it as a bookkeeping thing, thus letting 0 Endurance enemies still get their last turn in. But to each their own.

[zedturtle]

The trick with a simply bookkeeping interpretation means the who wins iniatitive is effectively moot.... if everything happens at the same time then it doesn't matter who rolls first.

Since the example and the rule disagree, I'd love to get an official clarification on this.

[Majestic]

Agree that it would helpful to have an official clarification (really to find out if the way it's written is what was actually intended).

It sounds like most people have been playing things the same way I have (the more traditional way of most RPGs, which is that characters drop when they hit 0). I may stick with doing it that way, or mix things up, depending on circumstances.

Another thing to keep in mind is that characters don't really know when opponents are at 0 Endurance. In other words, in real life there's no videogame-like health bar that floats next to every combatant, telling how close they are to finally falling unconscious. Which means that one fights until their opponent drops.

So if the characters (and players) don't know how much Endurance opposing adversaries are at, you completely avoid any 'comical' results, no matter which way you do it.

[Glorelendil]

Another thing to keep in mind is that characters don't really know when opponents are at 0 Endurance. In other words, in real life there's no videogame-like health bar that floats next to every combatant, telling how close they are to finally falling unconscious. Which means that one fights until their opponent drops.

They'll probably figure it out when the LM says, "The orc hits you for a Pierce, then dies."

EDIT: In retrospect, I misunderstood your point. I think what you are saying is that under the "simultaneous turns" interpretation it's possible for a hero to attack a target that is about to drop dead.

It does occur to me that the RAW in this case doesn't have to imply simultaneous turns. It could simply mean that when adversaries reach zero endurance they fade to black, with time for one more attack (albeit while Weary) rather than dropping suddenly. As opposed to Wounds, which drop them instantly.

Oooh...which raises an interesting situation: if you get a Pierce and drop them to zero endurance, they'll get one more attack against you if they pass their Protection test, but that test should be rolled as Weary.

[Stormcrow]

I suppose it depends on whether you interpret "turns" to represent a literal ordering in game time.

All players in such a situation will interpret it as, "What, did it take him a minute to figure out he's dead?"

If you have to stop the game to explain that, in fact, the rule book says an adversary isn't dead until the end of a round, so that's why he gets an extra attack afterward, then the damage is already done.

[Glorelendil]

All players in such a situation will interpret it as....

Wow. Just...wow.

[Stormcrow]

Wow. Just...wow.

Just wow what? You really don't think so?

LM: "You hit! What's your damage?"
Player: "5."
LM: "Okay, now it's the orc's turn." Roll dice. "He misses you. Then he collapses."
Player: "What? Did I see what made him collapse?"
LM: "He was overcome with exhaustion."
Player: "His last attack made him exhausted?"
LM: "No, your last attack put him over the edge."
Player: "But you decided to give him an extra swing at me first?"

[Rue]

LM: "You hit! What's your damage?"
Player: "5."
LM: "Okay, now it's the orc's turn." Roll dice. "He misses you. Then he collapses."
Player: "What? Did I see what made him collapse?"
LM: "He was overcome with exhaustion."
Player: "His last attack made him exhausted?"
LM: "No, your last attack put him over the edge."
Player: "But you decided to give him an extra swing at me first?"

Wouldn't the LM have explained the rules first? And if I was LMing I probably wouldn't phrase it quite like that, maybe more along the lines of "He misses and collapses, unable to withstand his injuries any longer/faint from loss of blood." Perhaps this is a convention I missed, not being familiar with other RPGs. Reading the RAW in TOR I interpreted it as they get that last swing (while Weary or whatnot), although I can see how it might not have been meant that way.

[Wbweather]

I have always run my games such that when an NPC hits 0 endurance, they collapse and don't swing back, but I could see it the other way too. Although in that case I don't see the real advantage of having initiative and the whole ambushing mechanic seems to be pointless.

Nevertheless, it doesn't have to be role played out like this:

LM: "Okay, now it's the orc's turn." Roll dice. "He misses you. Then he collapses."
Player: "What? Did I see what made him collapse?"
LM: "He was overcome with exhaustion."
Player: "His last attack made him exhausted?"
LM: "No, your last attack put him over the edge."
Player: "But you decided to give him an extra swing at me first?"

Instead, you might say, "You swing your axe with all your strength as the orc slashes at you with his bent sword. With a thud your blade hits the creature in his chest causing his thrust to miss wide as the wind is knocked out of him. He crumples to the ground unconscious."