Guidance needed on Encounters

[Brandiwise]

Even having run a series of TOR adventures I'm still confused over how correctly to run encounters, more specifically the introduction.

Firstly an apology: It's my lunch hour and I only have the PDFs for the first version rules available to me so apologies if the guidance has changed - if it has I haven't picked up on it.

The rules state that for most encounters companions must present themselves, individually, or as a group by a spokesman. They suggest that Courtesy, Awe and Riddle are appropriate skills to use. Awe is suggested for a single spokesman, where Courtesy is most appropriate for individual companions. This, though, is confused by some of the adventures where one or other of the main protagonists might prefer a single spokesman using Courtesy (I think Dain is one example as he gets bored of repeated introductions by one companion after another).

If companions want to introduce themselves individually can they choose to use Courtesy or Awe (with a higher TN for those who dont like that particular skill)? Given that encounters are a good way to generate AP a character with a poor Courtesy but a high Awe tends to feel disadvantaged as someone is rolling for him and thus getting more chance for AP. Similarly, if a companion rolls individually and fails, the rules suggest that this usually prevents a character from taking an active role in the encounter. Again, this disadvantages players who dont invest highly in Courtesy as they then lose the opportuity to actively participate in the encounter and thus AP (Insight only gets you so far). Meanwhile, since each failed courtesy roll counts against Tolerance this leads groups to have one spokesman and so only risk one Courtesy roll (since there is always one person with a bad skill score).

If a failed courtesy roll during the introductions already counts against Tolerance, isn't this doubly penalising a player by then cutting them out of the encounter itself - and how does this link up with the Persuade skill where a player may take advantage of his persuasiveness to make up for a bad introduction? In one episode our dwarf player got so flustered when he was formally introducing himself to Dain (he rolled very badly on Courtesy!) that I ruled his helmet fell off as he bowed so low before the King. It was amusing to all the other players (non-dwarf players), but I didn't consider it fair to exclude him from the encounter due to an over-exuberant (as I ruled) attempt to display his allegiance to his king (of course Dain was still pretty disappointed with him!).

Encounters are absolutely key to TOR but I'm still not clear how they run in my own mind and therefore find that I confuse my players when a specific situation arises.

[zedturtle]

Alright, this will probably be long... here's a collection of my thoughts on Encounters:

Not Every Interaction is an Encounter
I know that by a very literal reading of the rules, any time the characters talk to anyone it should be an Encounter. I don't do this... simple interactions remain either automatically successful (if there's no reason for the heroes to fear failure) or are resolved in a single roll (or trait invocation... more on this later).

Have a Goal, or at least Set Stakes
In order for an Encounter to be worth running, failure has to be at least as interesting as success. That means that either the heroes have to want something (and set a Goal to achieve it) or need something from the other party (in which case there are stakes... something is riding on this interaction, thus it is an Encounter). Don't launch into the Encounter without discussing this... either have the players tell you a goal or announce some stakes in advance... "If y'all blow this, you're sleeping in the stables tonight and not recovering any Endurance", that sort of thing.

Use Insight
Remember that the rules now have players roll Insight in order to earn bonus dice. This is another way for heroes that might not have great Courtesy/Awe to still earn APs and help out others. One of the best things I've seen some folks do is hand out little actual roleplaying insights with successful rolls... in other words, a player gets both a bonus die and some actual advice for a success. This does require some preplanning or good improvisational skills, though.

Introductions are Important (but often overlooked, or skipped over)
If the heroes are meeting someone for the first time, then a formal Introduction phase is probably in order. Have someone be the official spokesperson for the group, and make the introduction roll (some NPCs will favour Awe or Courtesy or vice versa). Once successful, you might go into the Interaction phase, and allow the spokesperson to 'activate' individual heroes by calling on them.

If your players prefer to act more independently, then encourage those with low scores to make good use of their Traits. That way they won't fail their introductory part and will still be able to participate in the parts that they are good at.

Interactions are Where It's At.
Once the introductions have been made (or are felt not to be needed), then go into the interaction phase. If a hero speaks up for the first time here (or if you skipped introductions but there's a good reason why the other party would be suspicious of the hero), then perhaps a higher TN is in order. Otherwise, go with the book for the most part. Again, emphasise to the players that Traits can make or break an Encounter, especially one with low Tolerance. Those that are using traits to automatically succeed won't earn any APs, but they didn't face a chance of failure either. Hopefully they'll get some APs in other parts of the game and then be able to ramp up their social skills.

End Before You Get Kicked Out
Tolerance can mean a lot of different things. In one Encounter, it might just mean that time has run out. In other, it could mean that the other party is sufficiently aggravated with you to cause armed aggression. Make sure that you have a variety of reactions, appropriate to the other party and the significance of the heroes. Be free in telling folks where they stand with Tolerance... this is a gamist 'push your luck' rule and thus you want to open and honest about where they stand. Players should never be surprised if they exceed Tolerance, just disappointed.

- - - - - - -

Okay, that's what I've got at the moment... questions and comments highly appreciated.

[Falenthal]

Encounters are difficult to handle in the beginning, specially since most of us (at least me) are used to games where getting info or help from an NPC was solved in just one roll. But once you get a hold of it, it's an interesting mechanic that fleshes out what should really be a debate and not a simple Q&A interview.

What zed said is all optimal advice. I also play thing the way he tells and it works fine.

Well, now let me try to give some answers or options to your questions:

The rules state that for most encounters companions must present themselves, individually, or as a group by a spokesman. They suggest that Courtesy, Awe and Riddle are appropriate skills to use. Awe is suggested for a single spokesman, where Courtesy is most appropriate for individual companions. This, though, is confused by some of the adventures where one or other of the main protagonists might prefer a single spokesman using Courtesy (I think Dain is one example as he gets bored of repeated introductions by one companion after another).

I thing "suggested" is the key here. A group can introduce itself by every member using Awe, or a single spokesman can use Courtesy to tell everyone's name. In fact, I find it easier to understand once I think about the NPC they're talking to instead of about what the rules say.
For example, the group needs help from Beorn. You, as LM, will probably have two ideas in mind: 1) Beorn doesn't want to hear everyone talk, he wants to get to the point. So, single spokesman is better than individual presentations. 2) Beorn isn't a person easily impressed, so Courtesy is better than Awe.
In this situation, you as LM could define that a single spokesman using Courtesy has a TN of 14, but every other option is at TN16. In fact, if the group decides to introduce themselves individually and someone uses Awe for this, he might have a TN of 18. Oh, and Beorn doesn't like hidden words at all. Any Riddle attempt is at TN 18 or 20.

See, this situations contradicts what the rules say about what is suggested, but at least to me they make more sense for this case in particular. In short: think about what the NPCs might like best/worse, not just about the rules.

If companions want to introduce themselves individually can they choose to use Courtesy or Awe (with a higher TN for those who dont like that particular skill)? Given that encounters are a good way to generate AP a character with a poor Courtesy but a high Awe tends to feel disadvantaged as someone is rolling for him and thus getting more chance for AP. Similarly, if a companion rolls individually and fails, the rules suggest that this usually prevents a character from taking an active role in the encounter. Again, this disadvantages players who dont invest highly in Courtesy as they then lose the opportuity to actively participate in the encounter and thus AP (Insight only gets you so far). Meanwhile, since each failed courtesy roll counts against Tolerance this leads groups to have one spokesman and so only risk one Courtesy roll (since there is always one person with a bad skill score).

If a failed courtesy roll during the introductions already counts against Tolerance, isn't this doubly penalising a player by then cutting them out of the encounter itself

Everything's as you say, but it isn't unbalancing. A dwarven axeman won't be shooting at enemies with a bow, a urban barding won't be in the hunting role during travels, so characters with low social skills won't participate much during encounters. Well, yes. That's why they chosed a culture and/or a character with low social skills. Beware, though, that every culture has, at least, one good social skill (Awe, Song, Inspire, Courtesy, Persuade, Riddle, Insight) and even one passable one. Courtesy isn't the only useful social skill.
Also, and very important here, Traits are really helpful here. If a player has very low skills for the introduction, encourage him to autosucceed with a Trait, so that he can participate later in the debate.

Otherwise, if a player didn't choose any "social" trait (like Well-spoken, Honorable,....), and didn't spend any skill points in raising social skills... well, maybe he doesn't like participating in social scenes.

- and how does this link up with the Persuade skill where a player may take advantage of his persuasiveness to make up for a bad introduction? In one episode our dwarf player got so flustered when he was formally introducing himself to Dain (he rolled very badly on Courtesy!) that I ruled his helmet fell off as he bowed so low before the King. It was amusing to all the other players (non-dwarf players), but I didn't consider it fair to exclude him from the encounter due to an over-exuberant (as I ruled) attempt to display his allegiance to his king (of course Dain was still pretty disappointed with him!).

Usually a Persuade test at a higher TN than normal is allowed to being able to participate in the encounter again.
If succesful, the character can be part of the encounter again. That simple.


I'll just add a few notes on how I play some thing during Encounters.

I use the Insight rolls for the preliminary roll as the place where I tell players things about the conditions of the encounter. Things like "he seems a seasoned fighter. Aweing him doesn't look easy, it seems that praising his house will be better" or "She looks interested in knowing about everyone who enters her settlement. Individual introductions seem ok here". The rules say that this kind of information can be given with a Lore test if the group has a chance to know something about the NPC (or investigates) before the encounter. But I find it to require too many rolls before even a word has been said (Lore + all Preliminary). I consider it ok to merge this kind of info with the Insight rolls for bonus dice.

As said before, encourage the use of Traits during the Introduction for players with low social skills or those who don't have the appropiate skill for that encounter (like someone with a high Awe and low Courtesy, but who is introducing himself to Beorn or Gandalf).

If someone fails the introduction, I usually let him participate, but every skill test is at a higher TN than for the rest. I don't require a succesful Persuade test before participating. It's not like anyone is going to make that character shout his mouth, but his words are more difficult to cause a good impression.

I also don't wait to the end of the encounter to tell the players what they have achieved. During the encounter itself I make the NPC talk about the info/help he can provide once the group reaches each of the tiers of success.

Well, I hope it helps!

[Brandiwise]

Thanks both. I'll try to ensure that players have balanced characters as much as possible. If they want to create the best archer in the world, I'll gently remind them that encounters and travel are equally as important (if not more important) as combat and they should ensure that they have some way to participate during social encounters.

Hadn't thought about Traits as the auto pass. In my mind I can see an example of a Hobbit offering to share his pipeweed at the start of the encounter for an auto pass using the smoking skill etc.

I like the example of giving a higher TN for anyone who fails the introduction so that they dont feel they can't say anything, but are aware that if they do choose to say something it will be more difficult for them given their previous social faux-pas.

Thanks both. I'll reflect on both your detailed comments for my upcoming campaign (DoM).