Permanent Hunt Threshold?

[Glorelendil]

Reading through the Eye of Mordor rules, it occurs to me that it would be quite easy for "high level" heroes to be in a situation where they are permanently above the Hunt Threshold for Eye of Mordor rules.

Take a party of 6 that has one Noldor, one Dunedain, on Hobbit, and some mix of the other cultures. That's a base score of 8. Since they are relatively experienced, assume that each of them has at least one of Valour or Wisdom of 4 or higher. That's six more points, for 14. Now give two of them famous weapons. That's 16.

That's equal or higher than the threshold for all Wild, Dark, and Shadow lands. So does that mean they experience a permanent Revelation episode? What does that even mean? Even if you assume it takes at least one Eye roll, that's a Revelation for every EoS fail.

Anybody have other suggestions for how to handle this circumstance? Anybody already experienced it in play?

EDIT: One thing that occurs to me is that, by expanding on the examples given in RAW, you could just assign certain "disabilities", one for each step (2 points) at or above the threshold, that don't go away until the heroes depart for friendlier lands.

[T.S. Luikart]

You mean they may have to choose to break up their group because they are too dangerous to the Shadow and so are being permanently hunted?

[Deadmanwalking]

The group I'm playing in isn't using the Eye of Mordor rules yet, but I'm certainly...we'll go with concerned about how high our Eye Awareness will be when we start. I mean, even with a party of two men, a dwarf, an Elf of Mirkwood, and a Hobbit, by that point we'll likely have a 10 base (we'd already have a 9, from four of us having Valour or Wisdom 4, and one having a Famous Weapon), and add in great renown (which seems quite possible) or the enemy knowing of our mission and we're higher than I'm happy with.

At that point, it would rather behoove the Company to secure the patronage of a Wizard or other powerful individual to shield them from notice, and to take various actions to be discreet, especially in Wild Lands or darker places.

As for how it should work mechanically if you're over the Hunt Threshold to start with...I'd imagine that every time you gain Shadow or roll an Eye you instantly trigger a Revelation Episode. That seems more than enough penalty to me at least.

[zedturtle]

You mean they may have to choose to break up their group because they are too dangerous to the Shadow and so are being permanently hunted?

Or travel with a Wizard.

Or under false names...

Heck, Hobbits should be -1 (and Middle Men should be 0. High Men would be 1). That would make Elrond's decision perfectly understandable... 'I know Gandalf that you want more firepower... but you're going to be under constant threat of Revelation Episodes. Here, take these Hobbits, they'll drop your score to a manageable level."

To be serious for a moment, I guess it is a limiting factor for groups, and another reason to retire highly advanced characters. It does encourage a certain amount of diversity, though.

[Majestic]

I've been running into the same concern, as last game the group started at 12 or 13, with a Hunt Threshold of 16. And that was even with two fairly new PCs! It didn't take long for a Revelation Episode to occur!

I often have that they're treading on paths seldom travelled, or not being really conspicuous (the equivalent of using false names and the like).

[Stormcrow]

Heck, Hobbits should be -1 (and Middle Men should be 0. High Men would be 1). That would make Elrond's decision perfectly understandable... 'I know Gandalf that you want more firepower... but you're going to be under constant threat of Revelation Episodes. Here, take these Hobbits, they'll drop your score to a manageable level."

Elrond was against Merry and Pippin going on the Quest. Gandalf suggested otherwise. "I think, Elrond, that in this matter it would be well to trust rather to their friendship than to great wisdom." When Pippin confirms that they'll follow whether or not they're part of the Company, Elrond relents.

[zedturtle]

Heck, Hobbits should be -1 (and Middle Men should be 0. High Men would be 1). That would make Elrond's decision perfectly understandable... 'I know Gandalf that you want more firepower... but you're going to be under constant threat of Revelation Episodes. Here, take these Hobbits, they'll drop your score to a manageable level."

Elrond was against Merry and Pippin going on the Quest. Gandalf suggested otherwise. "I think, Elrond, that in this matter it would be well to trust rather to their friendship than to great wisdom." When Pippin confirms that they'll follow whether or not they're part of the Company, Elrond relents.

And what relevance does that (the in-fiction reason) have with my imagined out-of-gaming reasoning?

[Glorelendil]

I don't think my example party was all that high-powered, or an unreasonable (unlikely) composition. I think it's pretty clear that the race condition (if I may misappropriate the term) isn't an edge case at all. "Just don't form Fellowship larger than 4, and definitely don't include Noldor" wouldn't be a very satisfactory fix.

Maybe this thread should be in House Rules, as the more fruitful discussion may be about what to do about it.

[Deadmanwalking]

If I were inclined to House Rules on this subject, the rule I'd change would be making the Hunt Thresholds a multiple of the number of companions. For example:

8 + Companions for a Dark Land
6 + 2 x Companions for a Shadow Land
8 + 2 x Companions for a Wild Land
6 + 3 x Companions for a Borderland
8 + 3 x Companions for a Free Land

At 4 Companions, these numbers are identical to the published ones, and at higher numbers, they allow more leeway. They break down at less than 3 Companions, but at less than three, you can just use the official versions instead.

Frankly, this makes at least as much sense to me as the published version. I'm not at all convinced Sauron is less likely to notice 3 people than 9 people. At least not usually.

[Glorelendil]

And/or simply raise the threshold from 4 to 6 for Valour/Wisdom modifiers. 4 just isn't very high or uncommon.

But no matter how the values are tweaked, the situation described...Eye Awareness Score permanently higher than Hunt Threshold...is going to occur at some point. What does that even mean? Life is just one big Revelation Episode? (Ironically, the penalty for rolling Saurons disappears when it happens.)