Help balancing combat!

[cuthalion]

Also, some virtues/rewards can give enemies the 'Craven' characteristic, which means at 0 hate they'd flee. I think all enemies have at least 1 hate.

[HorusZA]

I find that things like Challenge Ratings are an imperfect solution to a non-existing problem.
My Middle-Earth doesn't adapt itself to the abilities of the Characters. Things are what would make sense given the situation. If that turns out to be too much for the players to handle, then so be it... as others have already pointed out running away or surrender are perfectly reasonable options. Not every fight has to be to the death.
It also makes planning so much more important: What do we do if things turn against us? Where is our rally-point? How do we slow down potential pursuers?

[TheMonarchGamer]

Firstly, thanks for the response.
However, while I agree with the sentiment, at the time of asking this question, I needed some baseline to have a rough idea of the power level of characters compared to that of the monsters.

For instance, given the following scenario, such a comparison would be useful:
The players are speaking with a noble in his manor on the river when suddenly, a squire bursts in, shouting that the soldiers of Dawn Company have been seen on the horizon, and are readying for a charge against the manor. While the players themselves could certainly escape rather easily, to do so, they would have to leave the noble they have been tasked to protect, who refuses to leave without his entourage. Suddenly, they are forced to delay Dawn Company (cavalry) so that the noble had time to escape. In this situation, while a fight to the death is certainly not required, they are regardless forced into a fight for the short term at least. Therefore, I found a guide that allowed me to differentiate between adversaries that would instantly give a TPK on the first round, and an adversary that wouldn't even be able to even hit the player on the best of rolls, quite useful.

Also, while I love the idea of planning for contingencies such as those, it doesn't translate well into practice for my group - something with oft has dramatic consequences, especially if I rely on them forming such a plan ^_^

Thank you for your comment,
The Monarch Gamer

**EDIT**
I would also like to point out that this minor difference in philosophy likely stems from simply having different styles of loremastering. I don't really see myself changing all that much, nor do I expect you to do so either.
All the best,
The Monarch Gamer

[Indur Dawndeath]

Hi TheMonarchGamer,

I think you should consider the stats of your Dawn company to correspond to other mannish adversaries, so your players feel that they are really fighting turncoat veterans.
It will be strange for them to fight what appears to be common outlaws later and realize that they are much tougher than the Infantrymen of your company of knights.
An outlaw from the released TOR is Attr. 3, End 14, Hate 2, Weapon 2 (Favoured)

So in your scenario I would adjust the opponents and give the Players some kind of assistance, that converts into extra combat advantages in the first fight if you want it to be Easy / Medium or limit the number of opponents, so the players can team up against them.

The stats you have suggested is for very weak opponents, so unless they are weak and diseased, it doesn't fit
The knight is fitting, if he get one more dice or favoured weapon skill.

Just my 2 cents

[Glorelendil]

Alternately, it could be a likely TPK unless the party uses terrain/tactics to their advantage.

Remember that:
- Per the rules, normally only 3 opponents can engage a single other opponent, but if (for example) you've got heroes standing in doorways, it might be less.
- The rules on Rearward stance are subject to terrain as well. Again, if two heroes are blocking a choke point, Rearward Stance may still be possible against overwhelming odds
- Don't forget that TOR has no rules for multiple attacks or cleaving (with a couple very special, rare, and not very powerful exceptions), so unlike other games a fight against a large number of opponents, even if those opponents are weak, is likely to go badly.
- One option is always a hopeless fight against overwhelming odds, with a deus ex machina resolution. Or capture.

[Angelalex242]

As far as I know, the only 'second attack' option players have are in the hands of the elves.

Woodland bow gives Mirkwood elves an extra volley...and Spear of the Last Alliance, since it functions on great success, helps High Elves mow down enemies, perhaps several at a time if they keep rolling well.

[Glorelendil]

As far as I know, the only 'second attack' option players have are in the hands of the elves.

Woodland bow gives Mirkwood elves an extra volley...and Spear of the Last Alliance, since it functions on great success, helps High Elves mow down enemies, perhaps several at a time if they keep rolling well.

There's an enchanted quality as well.

[TheMonarchGamer]

Hi TheMonarchGamer,

I think you should consider the stats of your Dawn company to correspond to other mannish adversaries, so your players feel that they are really fighting turncoat veterans.
It will be strange for them to fight what appears to be common outlaws later and realize that they are much tougher than the Infantrymen of your company of knights.
An outlaw from the released TOR is Attr. 3, End 14, Hate 2, Weapon 2 (Favoured)

So in your scenario I would adjust the opponents and give the Players some kind of assistance, that converts into extra combat advantages in the first fight if you want it to be Easy / Medium or limit the number of opponents, so the players can team up against them.

The stats you have suggested is for very weak opponents, so unless they are weak and diseased, it doesn't fit
The knight is fitting, if he get one more dice or favoured weapon skill.

Just my 2 cents

That's a very good point, thanks for the comment. I went ahead and made the stats match the outlaw's for the most part, as I feel that having the +2 shield and 2d armor represent the better equipment that the soldiers would likely have. Out of curiosity, where did the stats for the outlaw come from?


As per the multiple attacks, that's a very interesting point. I hadn't really considered that - what I might end up doing for battles involving a large number of opponents is using a trick I read about in another rpg (I think it might have been the "Challenger RPG"?):
The idea is that you have one adversary with a bunch of hit points (endurance), and just give it multiple attacks an make it 'large' so that multiple players can attack it. You then just flavor it as having a hoard of enemies, and every 2 points of endurance (or some other arbitrary number) represents an enemy. That way, when the player does six points of damage, you can describe the attack as having sliced through two orcs in one fell stroke, then whirling around and driving the sword through the skull of another. You get the idea I've always liked that system for dealing with hoards of enemies.


And as it turns out, I've had another idea pertaining to the combat (making it easier for the players to face the tougher adversaries in the beginning): as I said, the idea is that these soldiers will continue to attack them as the players are looking for this item, because the soldiers are looking for the same item. Therefore, the first few combats could be simple scouting parties where the foes retreat after a few rounds of engagement, now knowing where the players are.

Thanks all,
The Monarch Gamer

[Indur Dawndeath]

That's a very good point, thanks for the comment. I went ahead and made the stats match the outlaw's for the most part, as I feel that having the +2 shield and 2d armor represent the better equipment that the soldiers would likely have. Out of curiosity, where did the stats for the outlaw come from?

The stats are from Tales from Wilderland. There are several examples of "common" warriors in that book with pretty much identical stats: Warriors from Dale, Easterling warriors, Outlaws. Attr. 3 is the standard. Weapon range from 2 favoured to 3 non favoured.
There is an example of common thugs / bullies in the Core Rules. Those guys are weak, but they are not soldiers, so it is fitting.
Elite soldiers go as high as Weapon 3 Favoured or Attribute 4.

I would make the infantrymen Attr. 3, End 14, Weapon 2 (Favoured). And the knights Attr. 4, End 18, Weapon 3 (non favoured)
To make up for the increased skill of the enemies in the first battle, you could consider all the enemies to be weary, because of the forced march they had to take to arrive unexpected. Explain it to the players, so they know that next time, the enemy will be tougher...

Btw. I'm not trying to force you to change anything, but I like your idea for a scene where the players get to defend an inn or a farm from a company of raiders. In my mind it is Easterlendings attacking a remote farmstead, where the players have relatives. The objective in my idea is for the players to get a messenger away unnoticed and to defend the farm until help arrives.

Tell us how your adventure went, when you have played it

Cheers