Things missing from the 1 Ring

[SJE]

So playing the One Ring last weekend in our epic minicampaign and I spotted a few things missing from the game that we could have needed.

1. PvP rules. If 2 PC's get into combat, how do you handle it and choose things like stance? What happens when a 'Boromir moment' escalates into intra-party conflict?
2. Where are the stats and abilities for the Rings of Power (Dwarven, Human, Elven and One Ring). The Arkenstone?
3. I get that Endurance and Fatigue is a balancing game mechanic, but what happens I strap my Great Spear (lance) to my horse? Or my squire carrys my sword or shield until i need it? Do I suddenly lose hit points for picking it up? Donkeys and ponies do carry heavy things throughout.
4. Why doesnt Bree show up in the Rivendell sourcebook of the Eriador area?

What else is missing?

[robert_pat]

I'll throw in my understanding of how current rules apply to these questions.

1. Full-on combat between PC's should never happen within the player's control, except perhaps in some sort of tournament. A 'Boromir moment' is a bout of madness, in which case the LM would dictate what happens, and if, somehow, the only possible course of action is to attack that PC, the LM should probably take over that PC, because that PC has succumbed to the shadow. In a tournament, I'd choose stances as normal, and use battle rolls to break ties. Then just let them whack away.
2. The Great Rings are artifacts of immense power, that should probably never come under the player's control. The Rivendell Magic Items rules touch on this (and actually give example stats for the Arkenstone and the One Ring), but the general idea is that these items should not be in the PCs control. If you feel compelled to include them, you could use Magic Items rules as a basis, or make up your own rules.
3. I believe that you would increase your fatigue as soon as you pick up that equipment. There's a reason TOR uses endurance and fatigue instead of HP; endurance represents the energy to keep defending one's self, and fatigue represents how the burden of carrying objects saps your energy. Also, it would be very unbalancing if it worked otherwise. Donkeys and ponies do reduce the burden of travel, as described in the rules.
4. The TOR people may consider Bree to be more of a Shire location, given that it's on the border between the two regions. Or they could have just decided that it would be too big to include in Rivendell, and that they'd rather include it in some other release.

I'd like to see an expansion of mounted and vehicular activities. Horse/wagon chase rules, some information on water-going vessels. I expect we'll have some extra horse rules with Rohan, and (fingers crossed) extra ship rules with Gondor, whenever that may be. I'd also like more ways to spend treasure. Unless I'm forgetting something, you can only use it to increase standard of living or standing, both of which are characteristics that come into play intermittently.

[zedturtle]

robert_pat has already given you some good answers, and I'm just going to add a few notes.

So playing the One Ring last weekend in our epic minicampaign and I spotted a few things missing from the game that we could have needed.

1. PvP rules. If 2 PC's get into combat, how do you handle it and choose things like stance? What happens when a 'Boromir moment' escalates into intra-party conflict?

As robert has pointed out, hero vs. hero conflict in The One Ring is a failure state, and something that the game doesn't try to model. That's not to say that the fiction doesn't support the idea (c.f. Boromir, but more importantly Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas vs. Éomer and his riders), but it doesn't need to fall under the regular resolution system.

IF you did want to do it, you'd need to take into account that both heroes have the ability to choose Stances. I'd probably declare that whoever chose the higher TN Stance for that round would 'win' the Stance. In other words, if one hero goes Forward (TN 6) and one hero goes Defensive (TN 12) then both attack rolls would use the TN 12 + Parry as their TN.

3. I get that Endurance and Fatigue is a balancing game mechanic, but what happens I strap my Great Spear (lance) to my horse? Or my squire carrys my sword or shield until i need it? Do I suddenly lose hit points for picking it up? Donkeys and ponies do carry heavy things throughout.

I think the most telling thing for these questions is how Weariness is handled. As robert says Endurance is not hit points, and in no case would a hero lose Endurance for added weaponry or armour. However, the hero would increase his Encumbrance and thus his Fatigue threshold.

This makes a certain amount of sense... if you've been slacking and letting your squire carry all the heavy stuff, it's not suddenly going to become light when you put it on. Instead, you're going to feel every pound and every tight-fitting strap that much more. So you will become Weary faster than if you weren't carrying it now. Of course, the gear provides it's own intrinsic benefit, so it's a balancing game.

If you are Weary and you take your gear off, you don't become automatically un-Weary. Instead, it takes a prolonged rest. This makes perfect sense to me, and fits how I feel after a workday quite often.

4. Why doesnt Bree show up in the Rivendell sourcebook of the Eriador area?

It seems that they have other plans for Bree, which makes sense to me. I see it as a mixing pot location, much like Laketown is for Rhovanion, and was not very surprised when they announced that it would see treatment in a later product.

What else is missing?

Check out the release schedule and join the rest of us in keeping an eye on the website!

[Heilemann]

What else is missing?

Rules for mounts. A fairly key ingredient in Middle-earth.

[Glorelendil]

What else is missing?

Rules for mounts. A fairly key ingredient in Middle-earth.

Not really, for the regions covered so far.

[Falenthal]

3. I get that Endurance and Fatigue is a balancing game mechanic, but what happens I strap my Great Spear (lance) to my horse? Or my squire carrys my sword or shield until i need it? Do I suddenly lose hit points for picking it up? Donkeys and ponies do carry heavy things throughout.

All other questions have already been fully answered, but I'd like to add something to this one.

During travels, it is supposed that your poneis/donkeys carry the weight of part or all of your gear. That's reflected in the fact that, if the journey is tiresome (you fail the Travel test), your character only gains half Fatigue from Travel.
TOR doesn't count where is every object kept, and how many times you pick it up each day during a 5 days journey.
Having a beast of burden with you makes failing a Travel test less dangerous, and the rationale behind that is that you share your Travelling Gear with it. Details aren't needed.

[Otaku-sempai]

I am disappointed that we don' t have anything yet for Western Eriador and Lindon (especially the Shire, the Grey Havens and the Blue Mountains), but the Adventurer's Companion should fill in some of those gaps. Journeys and Maps might include some more details.

[Angelalex242]

Well...personally, I think PVP is mostly likely to occur if a bout of madness hits. While it is certainly a failure state if a hero gets a bout of madness, it's not uncommon, particularly for new players that haven't learned to manage their hope resource yet.

It's basically Boromir vs. Frodo at that point. And your PC probably doesn't have the One Ring handy.

I'm not sure why the Great Rings need stats. I suppose theoretically the PCs might find a Dwarven Ring (reports of Dragons eating 4 of them might be greatly exaggerated), but there's no practical way to get the Nine away from the Ringwraiths (and woe to you if you manage it!). Trying to grab the 3 is requires taking on the 3 strongest heroes in middle earth.

I guess the One might come up if you want your PCs to recreate the War of the Ring with one of them standing in for Frodo.

[SJE]

I dont see PVP as necessarily a failure state- there can be violent disagreement within a Company (such as Thorin wanting the Arkenstone or what not) and the game is a failure if it cant model what occurs in the books let alone what happens between players at a typical table.

Talking of which shouldnt the Arkenstone have a Curse along with its Greater Blessing of Awe? The One Ring stats are also a bit disappointing in terms of not listing the Curses that come with it. I cant believe they've done a massive revised rulebook and not thought "Hey, wouldnt all these Tolkein fans who buy it want to use the One Ring in their own games, or do What If Hobbit games?"

Thats why we should have the Rings of Power in the games (and the Silmarils) - PC's want to play with the cool toys they've read about and recognise and not just leave it to the NPC's. What happens if a dying Gandalf entrusts you with the Ring of Fire? What if you do kill a Nazgul (as my PC did) and its ring comes bouncing off? Or... while the Nine did create the Ringwraiths, there is nothing to say the Rings remained with them after they become Wraiths. Perhaps your game is about thwarting the Shadow from tricking King Bard from recieving a 'dwarf-ring' from an emissary?

The frustrating thing is that TOR is clearly written by boardgamers with little subsystems and a fixed idea of how to play. RPG players however usually bust out of any constraints like that and the game needs to be written to cope with such foreseeable eventualities. (see Dork Covenant and "I gut Gandalf")

[Curulon]

Except the whole point of The One Ring isn't to play the big heroes like Gandalf, Aragorn, or Frodo. It's not meant to represent heroes of that scale. At best, you might rise to the likes of Eomer, in terms of power - though maybe not royalty. If you want to play heroes of that scale, there are other games that are better suited.

And I abhor PvP in any sort of Tolkien settings, unless one player is playing a Servant of the Enemy. I think The One Ring took a great stance in making it essentially non-existent.

Also, that was a bit uncalled for to take a jab at the creators - they know what they're doing. This is the best Tolkien RPG I've ever read and played.