How to Make Adventures
How to Make Adventures
Okay, so in this thread at rpg.net, a complaint has been raised that has shown up here on occasion as well... namely, that writing your own adventures for the game can be difficult.
Not just in a 'where to go, what to do' sense (though JRB's Wild Adventures helps a lot in those circumstances), but in a 'how do I create a Tolkienesque story?' and 'does my story fit in?' (in terms of canon, feel, or both).
It's something I constantly worry about... in my Darkening campaign, the heroes are going through a 'dungeon crawl' (complete with map) right now, looking for treasure. Of course, it's more complicated than that and they're not seeking the treasure for its own sake but instead they're trying to learn more about what the various powers left behind when the Necromancer fled are trying to achieve. But I'm worried about it becoming too much generic fantasy, which has threatened to happen before.
So maybe, as a community produced thing, try to come up with some guidelines or suggestions for how to create a Tolkienesque adventure that would add to what's already in the rulebook.
Not just in a 'where to go, what to do' sense (though JRB's Wild Adventures helps a lot in those circumstances), but in a 'how do I create a Tolkienesque story?' and 'does my story fit in?' (in terms of canon, feel, or both).
It's something I constantly worry about... in my Darkening campaign, the heroes are going through a 'dungeon crawl' (complete with map) right now, looking for treasure. Of course, it's more complicated than that and they're not seeking the treasure for its own sake but instead they're trying to learn more about what the various powers left behind when the Necromancer fled are trying to achieve. But I'm worried about it becoming too much generic fantasy, which has threatened to happen before.
So maybe, as a community produced thing, try to come up with some guidelines or suggestions for how to create a Tolkienesque adventure that would add to what's already in the rulebook.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.
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Re: How to Make Adventures
Good idea zed, I'll have a think.
Re: How to Make Adventures
Here's Jacob's original thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?726 ... This-Thing
In case it helps identify the issue(s).
In case it helps identify the issue(s).
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.
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Re: How to Make Adventures
Zed, I think this ties to Old Dice Man's article (at rpg.net) which he wrote about Adventures in Middle Earth and the Epic genre.
The more the adventures can fit into what an Epic looks like, more likely it will feel like Tolkien (at least, according to ODM and it seems right to me).
So while many prefer not to mess with the main canon, it's also important that PCs interact with characters and events from canon as much as possible and in significant ways.
My guess is, if the PCs' doings only end up being the equivalent of "side quests," or "treasure-seeking", etc., then it might start to feel like a generic fantasy rpg.
The more the adventures can fit into what an Epic looks like, more likely it will feel like Tolkien (at least, according to ODM and it seems right to me).
So while many prefer not to mess with the main canon, it's also important that PCs interact with characters and events from canon as much as possible and in significant ways.
My guess is, if the PCs' doings only end up being the equivalent of "side quests," or "treasure-seeking", etc., then it might start to feel like a generic fantasy rpg.
Re: How to Make Adventures
Just a few quick thoughts:
There should be an underlying theme of conflict between Light and Shadow.
There should be a sense of self-sacrifice on the part of the player characters.
The player characters should have some reminder of the past, be it through an interaction with an NPC, an ancient artifact, or a place. That's what makes Middle-earth unique (in my mind at least), the layers upon layers of history.
The players should be presented with moral choices that have tangible consequences.
Morality should be fairly black and white. Free peoples may have flaws, but they are basically good. Those who have aligned with the shadow are basically bad, although the Children of Ilúvatar (as well as hobbits and dwarves) should always have the possibility of redemption.
The story should focus on seeking seeking knowledge and tools to fight the enemy more than on treasure or glory.
There should be an underlying theme of conflict between Light and Shadow.
There should be a sense of self-sacrifice on the part of the player characters.
The player characters should have some reminder of the past, be it through an interaction with an NPC, an ancient artifact, or a place. That's what makes Middle-earth unique (in my mind at least), the layers upon layers of history.
The players should be presented with moral choices that have tangible consequences.
Morality should be fairly black and white. Free peoples may have flaws, but they are basically good. Those who have aligned with the shadow are basically bad, although the Children of Ilúvatar (as well as hobbits and dwarves) should always have the possibility of redemption.
The story should focus on seeking seeking knowledge and tools to fight the enemy more than on treasure or glory.
Last edited by Wbweather on Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to Make Adventures
Here are my initial thoughts on the subject (more later).
One of more of the following themes should be part of every adventure - these are the cornerstones of Tolkien's works
Themes
Friendship & Fellowship: Tolkien emphasizes friendship as the only way for the side of Good to fight against the Evil that Sauron brings.
The ennoblement of the ignoble: In other words, show humble people doing great things.
Compassion & forgiveness: Tolkien’s tales are full of this.
Home: Middle-earth seems even more precious (and worth defending from Sauron) because it is so loved by its inhabitants.
Fear & doubt: Facing and overcoming fear and doubt is a key component of Tolkien’s stories. Also misplaced fear is also a factor.
Perseverance: Continuing on with a task or duty even if the going gets tough. If there is one virtue Tolkien seems particularly to admire, it is perseverance.
One of more of the following themes should be part of every adventure - these are the cornerstones of Tolkien's works
Themes
Friendship & Fellowship: Tolkien emphasizes friendship as the only way for the side of Good to fight against the Evil that Sauron brings.
The ennoblement of the ignoble: In other words, show humble people doing great things.
Compassion & forgiveness: Tolkien’s tales are full of this.
Home: Middle-earth seems even more precious (and worth defending from Sauron) because it is so loved by its inhabitants.
Fear & doubt: Facing and overcoming fear and doubt is a key component of Tolkien’s stories. Also misplaced fear is also a factor.
Perseverance: Continuing on with a task or duty even if the going gets tough. If there is one virtue Tolkien seems particularly to admire, it is perseverance.
Re: How to Make Adventures
Great stuff... swamped do I probably won't be quite as prolific as usual, at least for a little while.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.
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Re: How to Make Adventures
Here's my take at the desired ingredients. Overall it's important, in TOR more than other games, to acknowledge the distinction between Player and Character. What we're trying to do is give the player...the Tolkien junkie...the fixes they seek, without having to turn their characters into the central figures of the 3rd Age.
1) I agree with "interaction with canon" but I don't think it needs to specifically be with the canonical characters. In fact, I think direct interaction can be worse than indirect. (This brings to mind the old adage about how strategically placed clothing can be more suggestive than no clothing at all.) The "ghost" mentioned by the Woodmen in TfW is, I think, an excellent example. Or the backstory to the Easterly Inn.
And beyond just the characters, there's interaction with the history itself, both past and future, which is probably more important. E.g. Witherfinger. Without any direct claims of who or what she is, anybody who arrives at a certain conclusion is bound to get shivers. When it's stuff that the players know but the characters would not it's almost more effective...it's like having a secret you're just dying to share.
One fun way to do this is to make forward historical references. That is, drop hints of things to come, that the players only know because they've read LoTR. They might encounter the very first shipment of pipeweed to leave the Shire for Isengard...they'll get that tingle of recognition, but they'll also be tortured by the thought they have it in their power to alter the future. But of course they can't because the characters don't understand the significance.
At just the right moment in time and place, the heroes might be sharing a glass of wine with a Mirkwood elf, a young guardsmen who confides..."just between you and me"...that lately he's had the curious assignment of guarding a "special prisoner" while he climbs a tall tree in the Mirkwood.
Oh, the temptation!
2) Next is continuity, or the sense that heroes exist at one point in a continuous story that spans millenia. This goes beyond sprinkling Middle Earth with ancient ruins (not that there's anything wrong with ancient ruins.) As I mentioned in another thread, I love this passage in LoTR, where Shagrat and Gorbag (Perry and Pippin's captors) are reminiscing:
Like the interactions mentioned above, these sorts of hints are best left subtle, or at least unstated: maybe the heroes come across a clearing on the east side of the Misty Mountains where a tall pine has been burnt to a crisp. Let the players draw their own conclusions.
3) Fading. Maybe the most important theme in Tolkien is the fading of the Elves and the transition to the age of Men. Tolwen has written some great stuff on this, and how the Art of the Elves was focused on preservation, as they attempted to keep the world they loved unblemished and unchanged, an exercise in futility for those who are immortal. (Spoiler alert: it didn't go as planned.) So in addition to the continuity mentioned above, the heroes should face a sense of decay. That the most beautiful bits of the world are slowly disappearing.
4) BBEG. This was alluded to in previous posts, but there is a trade-off between having every RPG campaign culminate in a world-saving fight against the Big Bad Evil Guy, versus having a campaign that just feels like a collection of generic RPG quests. The middle ground is tricky. Here I think the key is to have the players (even if the characters don't realize it) feel they are caught up in a small piece of the bigger picture, and that the blow they strike today will weaken Sauron in the long run. Or...perhaps better...their victories today will make it possible for Frodo's mission to succeed in the future. (The last adventure in Ruins of the North does this.) The hard part is that this feeling of relevance needs to be a nearly constant presence; an adventure shouldn't feel like it's mostly just chasing treasure, or murder-hoboing, with some sort of hint at the end that ties it to canon. (Unless you're doing so intentionally for dramatic effect because you have a mind-blowing denouement in store, and thus you want your players to think they're just chasing some run-of-the-mill bandits or whatever.)
Not very eloquent, and I don't have time to proof-read or edit. Maybe someday I'll try to turn this into a more coherent essay.
1) I agree with "interaction with canon" but I don't think it needs to specifically be with the canonical characters. In fact, I think direct interaction can be worse than indirect. (This brings to mind the old adage about how strategically placed clothing can be more suggestive than no clothing at all.) The "ghost" mentioned by the Woodmen in TfW is, I think, an excellent example. Or the backstory to the Easterly Inn.
And beyond just the characters, there's interaction with the history itself, both past and future, which is probably more important. E.g. Witherfinger. Without any direct claims of who or what she is, anybody who arrives at a certain conclusion is bound to get shivers. When it's stuff that the players know but the characters would not it's almost more effective...it's like having a secret you're just dying to share.
One fun way to do this is to make forward historical references. That is, drop hints of things to come, that the players only know because they've read LoTR. They might encounter the very first shipment of pipeweed to leave the Shire for Isengard...they'll get that tingle of recognition, but they'll also be tortured by the thought they have it in their power to alter the future. But of course they can't because the characters don't understand the significance.
At just the right moment in time and place, the heroes might be sharing a glass of wine with a Mirkwood elf, a young guardsmen who confides..."just between you and me"...that lately he's had the curious assignment of guarding a "special prisoner" while he climbs a tall tree in the Mirkwood.
Oh, the temptation!
2) Next is continuity, or the sense that heroes exist at one point in a continuous story that spans millenia. This goes beyond sprinkling Middle Earth with ancient ruins (not that there's anything wrong with ancient ruins.) As I mentioned in another thread, I love this passage in LoTR, where Shagrat and Gorbag (Perry and Pippin's captors) are reminiscing:
It's subtle, but it's a sneaky reference to Sauron's return, and how the orcs enjoyed a period of relative independent, but now the "big bosses" were back in power.“What d’you say? – if we get a chance, you and me’ll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there’s good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.’
‘Ah!’ said Shagrat. ‘Like old times.”
Like the interactions mentioned above, these sorts of hints are best left subtle, or at least unstated: maybe the heroes come across a clearing on the east side of the Misty Mountains where a tall pine has been burnt to a crisp. Let the players draw their own conclusions.
3) Fading. Maybe the most important theme in Tolkien is the fading of the Elves and the transition to the age of Men. Tolwen has written some great stuff on this, and how the Art of the Elves was focused on preservation, as they attempted to keep the world they loved unblemished and unchanged, an exercise in futility for those who are immortal. (Spoiler alert: it didn't go as planned.) So in addition to the continuity mentioned above, the heroes should face a sense of decay. That the most beautiful bits of the world are slowly disappearing.
4) BBEG. This was alluded to in previous posts, but there is a trade-off between having every RPG campaign culminate in a world-saving fight against the Big Bad Evil Guy, versus having a campaign that just feels like a collection of generic RPG quests. The middle ground is tricky. Here I think the key is to have the players (even if the characters don't realize it) feel they are caught up in a small piece of the bigger picture, and that the blow they strike today will weaken Sauron in the long run. Or...perhaps better...their victories today will make it possible for Frodo's mission to succeed in the future. (The last adventure in Ruins of the North does this.) The hard part is that this feeling of relevance needs to be a nearly constant presence; an adventure shouldn't feel like it's mostly just chasing treasure, or murder-hoboing, with some sort of hint at the end that ties it to canon. (Unless you're doing so intentionally for dramatic effect because you have a mind-blowing denouement in store, and thus you want your players to think they're just chasing some run-of-the-mill bandits or whatever.)
Not very eloquent, and I don't have time to proof-read or edit. Maybe someday I'll try to turn this into a more coherent essay.
The Munchkin Formerly Known as Elfcrusher
Journey Computer | Combat Simulator | Bestiary | Weapon Calculator
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Re: How to Make Adventures
Great thoughts, Glorelendil. I agree that the characters don't need to interact with canon-important figures (or, they don't need to know it!)... but if the players can, if the players are aware of the bigger picture - awesome! Witherfinger, the Chain of Thangorodrim, the Quest of Beorn...all perfect examples.
I think subtlety is key; the deeper layers, as Wbw has mentioned, don't have to all be spelled out, they can simply be referenced.
Yes, and fading will definitely bring out the feel of Tolkien, especially when the players can contrast it to something that the characters find that is not yet quite faded!
I think subtlety is key; the deeper layers, as Wbw has mentioned, don't have to all be spelled out, they can simply be referenced.
Yes, and fading will definitely bring out the feel of Tolkien, especially when the players can contrast it to something that the characters find that is not yet quite faded!
Re: How to Make Adventures
So many excellent responses so far; I especially think Wbweather nailed so many of the core elements (as did many others).
For as much as it's easy to bash on Decipher's Lord of the Rings RPG - and it's true that it often had the feel much more of a generic, high-powered epic fantasy - there is a two-page spread in the Core Rules that spells out the important elements of Tolkienesque gaming. I think it's titled 'The Quality of Heroes', IIRC. It details what makes the Tolkien hero different from many other fantasy adventurers (what you might find in Game of Thrones, for instance). It explains qualities like humility, compassion, self-sacrifice, nobility, kindness, empathy, and many others. Without picking on any alternate play styles, the stereotypical "hack n' slash", where roving murderhobos kill monsters and gather loot (the stuff of a typical game of "Munchkin"), the protagonists in Middle-earth are more about defending their loved ones, establishing truth and justice, and protecting the innocent.
There's a general sadness and melancholy, especially surrounding the Elves and their passing of the torch to the era of Men. The Darkening of Mirkwood captures this so well, as the world gets more and more dark with the return of Sauron in the latter part of the Third Age (the default setting of TOR).
Any chance to have the characters engage in songs and poetry fits the setting as well.
Good and evil should be sharply contrasted; there should be way less 'gray' than you might otherwise see in a game. Adversaries like Orcs and Trolls are generally irredeemable, whereas there's almost always still hope to restore Men, even if they've started to head down the path of darkness.
Evil seeks more than just power and conquest. Heroes and the good forces love nature, the trees, and all of life, and evil tends to destroy the same and seeks to eradicate or dominate it.
Teamwork, loyalty, and camaraderie are qualities that the good forces can use for victory, but which elude those that are evil.
Often the lowliest of persons, like a simple gardener, can achieve the works of legends and songs, often simply through perseverance, loyalty, and determination.
For as much as it's easy to bash on Decipher's Lord of the Rings RPG - and it's true that it often had the feel much more of a generic, high-powered epic fantasy - there is a two-page spread in the Core Rules that spells out the important elements of Tolkienesque gaming. I think it's titled 'The Quality of Heroes', IIRC. It details what makes the Tolkien hero different from many other fantasy adventurers (what you might find in Game of Thrones, for instance). It explains qualities like humility, compassion, self-sacrifice, nobility, kindness, empathy, and many others. Without picking on any alternate play styles, the stereotypical "hack n' slash", where roving murderhobos kill monsters and gather loot (the stuff of a typical game of "Munchkin"), the protagonists in Middle-earth are more about defending their loved ones, establishing truth and justice, and protecting the innocent.
There's a general sadness and melancholy, especially surrounding the Elves and their passing of the torch to the era of Men. The Darkening of Mirkwood captures this so well, as the world gets more and more dark with the return of Sauron in the latter part of the Third Age (the default setting of TOR).
Any chance to have the characters engage in songs and poetry fits the setting as well.
Good and evil should be sharply contrasted; there should be way less 'gray' than you might otherwise see in a game. Adversaries like Orcs and Trolls are generally irredeemable, whereas there's almost always still hope to restore Men, even if they've started to head down the path of darkness.
Evil seeks more than just power and conquest. Heroes and the good forces love nature, the trees, and all of life, and evil tends to destroy the same and seeks to eradicate or dominate it.
Teamwork, loyalty, and camaraderie are qualities that the good forces can use for victory, but which elude those that are evil.
Often the lowliest of persons, like a simple gardener, can achieve the works of legends and songs, often simply through perseverance, loyalty, and determination.
Tale of Years for a second, lower-level group (in the same campaign).
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