Evaluating the outcome of an Encounters optional rule

[doctheweasel]

This thread has me wondering if Introductions should be the Preliminary Roll. It makes sense narratively, at least, that a good intro would help with making a request. Hmmmm.

[Deadmanwalking]

This thread has me wondering if Introductions should be the Preliminary Roll. It makes sense narratively, at least, that a good intro would help with making a request. Hmmmm.

That either results in two preliminary rolls, or Insight losing the greatest part of its usefulness. Not that I don't see your point, but there are problems with this idea.

[jamesrbrown]

I have mentioned this before, but to alleviate the frustration of worrying about how many rolls to make during an encounter and thereby focusing too much on racking up successes rather than roleplaying, simply flip the Tolerance rating of an encounter on its head. Instead of representing a failure maximum that determines when you stop counting successes, try allowing the Tolerance rating to represent the number of rolls the company will get in total; then, count successes to evaluate the encounter. So, if the Tolerance rating was 3, the company would get a total of 3 Personality or Custom skill rolls during that encounter. This does not limit roleplaying in anyway; they can talk as long as they want to. It simply limits the number of dice rolls and keeps players from worrying about that aspect of the game.

By the way, this method does not change anything about how you set a Tolerance rating. It would be done the exact same way.

[Angelalex242]

Eeek. Doing that way means companies would never let those less able speak. It'd be 'sit down and shut up, new guy, the grownups are talking.'

[jamesrbrown]

Let me try to respond to that for a second.

I've run many, many encounters and here's what I've observed: When an encounter comes up, there's usually a suggestion for a skill test like Courtesy, Inspire, or Awe for the Introduction. At that point, players look around the table and ask each other who has the best social skills, NOT because they are trying to keep someone from speaking up if they wanted to, but because they are genuinely looking to make the best presentation possible, as a company. That is actually realistic and not a problem. If someone was clumsy with words (low skill rank), they probably wouldn't be picked to be the spokesman during an important meeting. Remember, the encounter rules aren't used for every social situation; only when the companions meet important Loremaster characters and the result of that encounter will mean various boons according to successes.

Also, you don't always have to make a roll to go along with every line spoken...

[Yepesnopes]

James what you propose seem also a good option. Thx for sharing.

[zedturtle]

Eeek. Doing that way means companies would never let those less able speak. It'd be 'sit down and shut up, new guy, the grownups are talking.'

When James proposed it to me, I was a bit leery too. But with a moment of thought here's what's going on:

Preliminary Rolls:
Insight

Introductions:
Awe
Courtesy
Riddle

Interactions:
Awe
Inspire
Persuade
Insight
Song
Courtesy
Riddle
Healing (with justification)
Hunting (with justification)
Craft (with justification)
Battle (with justification)
Lore (with justification)

So that's 7/18 skills with no arm twisting, and up to 12/18 with Trait invocations. No one hero will be the best choice for each. So I think the idea is worth consideration.

[doctheweasel]

That's a great suggestion, James.

It's been my experience too that players self-select themselves out if they don't think they are going to help mechanically rather than wanting to participate and not having a chance.

[Falenthal]

Doing that way means companies would never let those less able speak. It'd be 'sit down and shut up, new guy, the grownups are talking.'

They walked down a paved passage, long and empty, and as they went Gandalf spoke softly to Pippin. ‘Be careful of your words, Master Peregrin! This is no time for hobbit pertness. Théoden is a kindly old man. Denethor is of another sort, proud and subtle, a man of far greater lineage and power, though he is not called a king. But he will speak most to you, and question you much, since you can tell him of his son Boromir. He loved him greatly: too much perhaps; and the more so because they were unlike. But under cover of this love he will think it easier to learn what he wishes from you rather than from me. Do not tell him more than you need, and leave quiet the matter of Frodo’s errand. I will deal with that in due time. And say nothing about Aragorn either, unless you must.’

...

Gandalf halted before a tall door of polished metal. ‘See, Master Pippin, there is no time to instruct you now in the history of Gondor; though it might have been better, if you had learned something of it, when you were still birds-nesting and playing truant in the woods of the Shire. Do as I bid! It is scarcely wise when bringing the news of the death of his heir to a mighty lord to speak over much of the coming of one who will, if he comes, claim the kingship. Is that enough?’

‘Kingship?’ said Pippin amazed.

‘Yes,’ said Gandalf. ‘If you have walked all these days with closed ears and mind asleep, wake up now!’ He knocked on the door.

Yes, those with low weapon skills don't defend the honor of someone else in a duel, those with low Travel skill don't guide a whole group, those with low Social skills don't introduce the Fellowship to a King (or a Steward).

I find it perfectly reasonable.

And I think I'll try James' HR next time. I've found that my group never exceeds the Tolerance: some good social skills and some Traits are enough to reach at least 5 successes. Add in one or two good rolls and the 7+ is easily achieved everytime. Encounters are interesting because of the role-playing involved, but the mechanic (which has a lot of potential an is a genius idea) doesn't work for me for some reason. The change proposed by James could be a simple but efficent solution. And, therefore, genius too.

[Falenthal]

Instead of representing a failure maximum that determines when you stop counting successes, try allowing the Tolerance rating to represent the number of rolls the company will get in total; then, count successes to evaluate the encounter. So, if the Tolerance rating was 3, the company would get a total of 3 Personality or Custom skill rolls during that encounter.

By the way, this method does not change anything about how you set a Tolerance rating. It would be done the exact same way.

A few questions, James:

-Does the use of a Trait count as a roll?

-You mention that the Tolerance indicates the number of Personality or Custom skill rolls allowed. Only those? I mean, if a spokesman introduces the group with one succesful Courtesy, and during the Interaction Phase another (or the same, it doesn't matter) player want to expose a point with, lets say, Battle (Vocation), I guess it should also count towards the maximum rolls, doesn't it?

-And, as far as I understand it, Tolerance becomes the maximum number of rolls that count towards successes, right? But no the total number of rolls allowed. Once the group has already rolled their first 3 rolls (if Tolerance is 3), they can continue asking questions or proposing things with skill rolls, only that they won't influence the final outcome (although they may gain more information, etc.). Is that right?