Help me get Jackson's imagery out of my head

[Grands-Pas]

Hi. I'm a long time Tolkien and RPG fan but just recently started looking more seriously at The One Ring RPG.
I really like what I see and I want to run a game for my group at some point. To that end, I started re-reading The Lord of the Ring. Problem is, with the mediatic deluge we've received ever since Peter Jackson's movies it's getting harder and harder to imagine some of the characters or some of the locales differently than Jackson's interpretation. For example I have a hard time imagining Frodo as someone else than Elijah Wood and in the books Frodo's supposed to be 50! when he leaves the Shire.

I'm saying that and I'm not even a fan of his work. The LOTR movies were IMHO weak adaptations but good entertainment and I couldn't watch past the first Hobbit movie (no offense to those that like PJ's work).

Anyone in a similar situation? What did you do to recapture the imagery/vision you had when you first read the books before the movies came?

Thanks.

P.S. to Cubicle 7: Your wonderful illustrations and style sure help a lot in that regard.

[Angelalex242]

You could try watching the ancient animated stuff.

[Arthadan]

May I suggest you go back to the source? Re-read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit paying special attention to characters descriptions and then try to imagine then.

[mirkwoodfalcon]

I had this problem for a long time too, and still do for certain characters and places. Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that while Jackson's interpretation of the events of LotR and the Hobbit are off in many places, his depictions of locations are pretty solid nonetheless (barring a few exceptions, like Gundabad.) These were based primarily on sketches and paintings by Alan Lee and John Howe (coincidentally, some of John Howe's art was also used in The One Ring; this might explain some of the difficulty. )
Something that I found helpful in decoupling Jackson's imagery from my imagination of Middle-earth was finding another outlet of Middle-earth to delve into. I've been playing LotRO (Lord of the Rings Online) for many years, and I've found that the locations and characters I've seen both in the Jackson movies and in LotRO I can more easily separate from one definitive image in my mind's eye. I like to think of it as seeing things from multiple angles; it forces you to disassociate a singular image from a concept, allowing you to create your own image as you see fit.
To that end, I think Angelalex242 is probably on to something; it would probably help just to see the same story illustrated/acted/depicted by a different group of people, whether that's by watching the animated films, playing some of the LotR video games, or browsing artwork on the internet from varying sources.

[Stormcrow]

Most art you find on the Internet will be Lee or Howe.

This is indeed a significant issue, and the lopsidedness of sources of imagery can be a problem.

Here are some of the more egregious (to me) issues with the popular imagery, in no particular order:

• The balrog is not a roaring beast with wings. It is a silent, humanoid shadow wreathed in flames, though these are extinguished when Gandalf says "the dark fire will not avail you."
• Sam is not said to be particularly fatter than the other hobbits, though he is always depicted that way. Frodo is somewhat fat at first, and is surprised at how much weight he loses by the time he gets to Rivendell.
• Pippin, Merry, and Sam are nearly a generation younger than Frodo, though Frodo looks to be about the same age because he has the Ring.
• Nobody wears "plate mail."
• Rivendell is a "homely house," not a glittering palace.
• Dwarves are not vikings, no matter what their names suggest. They take their use-names from the peoples of the lands about them. DWARVES DO NOT SPEAK WITH SCOTTISH ACCENTS!
• Dwarves are not as wide round the middle as a bulky man; they are more or less proportionally normal.
• Sauron is not a giant, flaming eyeball.
• Dragons are not meaty lizards; they're snakes with legs.
• Trolls are not roaring beasts; they are like giant, brutish men.
• Elves use straight blades; orcs use curved or bent blades.
• Thorin Oakenshield was very, very old when he hired Bilbo. He was the oldest dwarf in the company.
• Elves aren't generally snooty, over-cultured killjoys; they love to laugh and sing and enjoy the world. Middle-earth is to elves as heaven is to men. Those silly, teasing elves in Rivendell in The Hobbit? Those are NOLDOR!
• Dwarves dress funny. They all wear single-colored, oversized Waldo hats without the puff on top. These are their "hoods," and they are not attached to cloaks.

Tolkien made many illustrations. Look them up for some examples.

[Glorelendil]

It is funny how Dwarves always have Scottish accents, and not just in Tolkien interpretations.

That said, it is surprisingly hard to invent an accent that doesn't evoke a familiar one. So I use a Russian accent for my Dwarves. It would drive Jamie Lee Curtis wild.

[Otaku-sempai]

I'm not sure that this is that big of a problem. Yes, Frodo was aged 50 when he left the Shire, but he was also in possession of the Ring for long enough that his appearance matched that of his younger cousins and Sam. Pippin, of course, should have appeared younger than he did in the films.

Thorin was finally given a bit of gray in the Hobbit movies, although Tolkien did give him a longer beard. And the Dwarves of the company did not seem nearly as well-equipped or well-armed as Jackson make them.

[robert_pat]

I think that this is a significant problem, for a few reasons. It breaks immersion if you meet Saruman and your brain goes back to where you've filed memories of "Christopher Lee". And the images of movie characters as warriors and adventurers first and foremost breaks with the idea that most "adventurers" are just regular folk who happen to occasionally need a sword to do what they do.

I think practice is the key here. Re-reading with a focus on descriptions is good, and I think it's a good idea to just force yourself to re-imagine what things look like.

So I use a Russian accent for my Dwarves. It would drive Jamie Lee Curtis wild.

. . . I am oddly proud of myself for getting that reference.

[Stormcrow]

I use a Russian accent for my Dwarves.

I find that quite appropriate. Or give them Israeli accents. Tolkien compared the dwarvish language to Hebrew on more than one occasion.

[Grands-Pas]

Most art you find on the Internet will be Lee or Howe.

This is indeed a significant issue, and the lopsidedness of sources of imagery can be a problem.

Here are some of the more egregious (to me) issues with the popular imagery, in no particular order:

• The balrog is not a roaring beast with wings. It is a silent, humanoid shadow wreathed in flames, though these are extinguished when Gandalf says "the dark fire will not avail you."
• Sam is not said to be particularly fatter than the other hobbits, though he is always depicted that way. Frodo is somewhat fat at first, and is surprised at how much weight he loses by the time he gets to Rivendell.
• Pippin, Merry, and Sam are nearly a generation younger than Frodo, though Frodo looks to be about the same age because he has the Ring.
• Nobody wears "plate mail."
• Rivendell is a "homely house," not a glittering palace.
• Dwarves are not vikings, no matter what their names suggest. They take their use-names from the peoples of the lands about them. DWARVES DO NOT SPEAK WITH SCOTTISH ACCENTS!
• Dwarves are not as wide round the middle as a bulky man; they are more or less proportionally normal.
• Sauron is not a giant, flaming eyeball.
• Dragons are not meaty lizards; they're snakes with legs.
• Trolls are not roaring beasts; they are like giant, brutish men.
• Elves use straight blades; orcs use curved or bent blades.
• Thorin Oakenshield was very, very old when he hired Bilbo. He was the oldest dwarf in the company.
• Elves aren't generally snooty, over-cultured killjoys; they love to laugh and sing and enjoy the world. Middle-earth is to elves as heaven is to men. Those silly, teasing elves in Rivendell in The Hobbit? Those are NOLDOR!
• Dwarves dress funny. They all wear single-colored, oversized Waldo hats without the puff on top. These are their "hoods," and they are not attached to cloaks.

Tolkien made many illustrations. Look them up for some examples.

Amen.

After writing this thread, I stumbled back on the work of the great Ted Nasmith which is both excellent and quite different from Howe and Lee. Really inspirational, and his balrog is really different from Jackson's version.