Sanctuaries and Patrons in Eriador

[Stormcrow]

Tom Bombadil & Goldberry in the Old Forrest. Very suitable as patrons. Unsuitable as sanctuary unless patrons they be also.

I'd say exactly the opposite. If you can find Tom's house he'll shelter you and let you rest and forget your troubles, but he's too flighty and self-absorbed to be bothered with sending anyone on quests or providing assistance for one.

Quite possible, also, the Shirriffs - any of the 12 of them (3 in each Farthing) might make useful patrons,

Shirriffs aren't really anybody special, just policemen who help pull carts out of ditches and things like that. They don't seem qualified to be patrons.

To the north of the Eastern half of Eriador, scattered few farms remain - hamlets and lone homesteads - but those that are there make fine places of rest. Especially for wearied Dunedain, whose skills might be traded for supper.

A sanctuary is more than a place to sleep and get supper; it is a place that is especially suitable for the fellowship phase activities of adventurers. An isolated homestead wouldn't likely qualify.

The trouble with patrons and sanctuaries in eastern Eriador is that there are no settlements outside of Rivendell. The answer is, of course, that your patron must be someone who roams. Gandalf, Rangers, High Elves, and dwarves all travel through eastern Eriador, though most just use the East Road. Remember, Aragorn himself said he was not very familiar with the troll-country, so Rangers probably don't go there unless they have to.

Eastern Eriador is EMPTY. Basing two entire books on it was, perhaps, a mistake.

[Otaku-sempai]

Eastern Eriador is EMPTY. Basing two entire books on it was, perhaps, a mistake.

Yup! That is why my reply concentrated more on Western Eriador and Lindon. Still, I have to agree that the leaders and de facto leaders of the Rangers can make perfectly fine Patrons.

Yes, the Mayor of Michel Delving wore several hats. He was effectively the mayor of the entire Shire; he was also both First Shirriff and Postmaster. However, within the timeframe of the existing TOR campaigns, I don't see him having much truck with Adventurers. The same could be true of the Thain; although both the Tooks and the Brandybucks tend to be more open-minded and less conservative than the average Hobbit.

[Angelalex242]

The problem with Hobbits other then Bilbo being patrons is that you have to jump through some canon bending hoops to justify it.

Most of the Patrons in that region are going to be Rivendell based. Beyond that, you pretty much have to get to Fangorn (Treebeard) or Orthanc (Saruman) in order to find a Patron. As for Rohan and Gondor, those men don't have exceptionally long lifespans...and the 2950s are a solid 70 years before the war of the Ring. So guys like Theoden and Denethor aren't even born yet. They might be men of age in the War of the Ring, but...still, Rohan has a king, and Gondor a Steward.

[Otaku-sempai]

The problem with Hobbits other then Bilbo being patrons is that you have to jump through some canon bending hoops to justify it.

True (assuming a Loremaster doesn't just want to establish his own personal canon). Still there are possibilities for the Thain, the Master of Brandy Hall and perhaps even the Mayor of Michel Delving (First Shirriff).

Most of the Patrons in that region are going to be Rivendell based. Beyond that, you pretty much have to get to Fangorn (Treebeard) or Orthanc (Saruman) in order to find a Patron. As for Rohan and Gondor, those men don't have exceptionally long lifespans...and the 2950s are a solid 70 years before the war of the Ring. So guys like Theoden and Denethor aren't even born yet. They might be men of age in the War of the Ring, but...still, Rohan has a king, and Gondor a Steward.

If by "that region" you mean Eriador then you've already abandoned it in your discussion (although I guess that Isengard is at least marginally in Eriador). If we consider all of Eriador then we do have several locations other than Rivendell for potential Sanctuaries. There is Bree, the Grey Havens, the Shire (and Buckland within the Shire), and the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains. Granted, we don't have official write-ups for these places--yet. Even a semi-permanent settlement of the Men of the North might qualify. Now, since you brought up Rohan and Gondor:

Patrons in Rohan and Gondor

Rohan:
- King Thengel. Thengel became the sixteenth King of Rohan in TA 2953 upon the death of his father King Fengel. Thengel did not get on well with his father and lived in Gondor from 2925 to 2953.
- King Théoden. King Thengel died in 2980 and his son Théoden became King of Rohan until he was killed in the War of the Ring. Aragorn son of Arathorn, using the name Thorongil, served under King Théoden for some time (probably several years) before leaving Rohan for Gondor.
- Saruman the White. Saruman was originally a good friend to Rohan. in 2953 he secretly turned against the White Council and began to fortify Isengard. Soon after he began to stir up the Dunlendings and Orcs and set them against Rohan.
- Gandalf the Grey. The Wizard Gandalf was known to pass through the region from time to time--not always with good tidings.

Gondor:
- Ecthelion II. Ecthelion was the twenty-fifth Ruling Steward of Gondor from 2953 to 2984. During his rule Aragorn, as Thorongil, served Gondor and became a trusted advisor to the Steward. 'Thorongil' left the service of Gondor in 2980.
- Denethor II. Upon Ecthelion's death in 2984, his son Denethor II succeeded him as the twenty-sixth and last Ruling Steward of Gondor. Denenthor was suspicious of Thorongil and guessed at his true identity, suspecting him of being in collusion with the Wizard Mithrandir and plotting to replace him.
- Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf would occasionally visit Minas Tirith and during the time of Denethor II he would tutor Faramir, Denethor's younger son.

[aramis]

Tom Bombadil & Goldberry in the Old Forrest. Very suitable as patrons. Unsuitable as sanctuary unless patrons they be also.

I'd say exactly the opposite. If you can find Tom's house he'll shelter you and let you rest and forget your troubles, but he's too flighty and self-absorbed to be bothered with sending anyone on quests or providing assistance for one.

Tom's isn't suited for a sanctuary - while it''s safe from shadow, man, and beast, it's also not someplace one makes their way to.

Quite possible, also, the Shirriffs - any of the 12 of them (3 in each Farthing) might make useful patrons,

Shirriffs aren't really anybody special, just policemen who help pull carts out of ditches and things like that. They don't seem qualified to be patrons.

They're of great importance in the shire... essentially, they are captains of the guard, and used to dealing with the outsiders. A patron need not be a major mover and shaker - merely one who can provide missions, advice, and guidance.

To the north of the Eastern half of Eriador, scattered few farms remain - hamlets and lone homesteads - but those that are there make fine places of rest. Especially for wearied Dunedain, whose skills might be traded for supper.

A sanctuary is more than a place to sleep and get supper; it is a place that is especially suitable for the fellowship phase activities of adventurers. An isolated homestead wouldn't likely qualify.

Let's look at the definition from the rules (which either you missed or misread):

A number of locations are considered sanctuaries, special places particularly suited to support the needs of a company of adventurers, and inhabited by a host willing to welcome them. At the beginning of the game, there is only one place that adventurers may consider already a sanctuary: the town of Esgaroth on the Long Lake. Other locations may be gained access to by visiting them and choosing the Open New Sanctuary undertaking (see page 199).

Characters in a sanctuary dedicate their time to telling and listening to stories and to the exchange of adventuring experiences.

and

In the course of their exploration of Wilderland, the company of adventurers will sooner or later find new places they might consider suitable for resting during a Fellowship phase. If, during an Adventuring phase the company has entered a location and has established friendly relations with its denizens, they can make it a
sanctuary, securing permission to enter it regularly to spend a Fellowship phase there.

To turn a suitable location into a sanctuary, all companions must spend the phase there and choose
Open New Sanctuary as their current undertaking.
The collective undertaking cements their relations with the
important personalities of the place.

It sets no requirements. You're looking for strongholds against evil - while I'm pointing out potential sanctuaries as defined by the game. A place to:
(1) spend an extended time resting together at
(2) recover from corruption at
(3) recover from wounds at
(4) gather at at start of an adventure phase

Nothing in the game requires it to be a fortress - just a place of rest that the company can call a home away from home, And that a willing host be present.

Tom's fails on #4... you can find it only when Tom wishes.

The trouble with patrons and sanctuaries in eastern Eriador is that there are no settlements outside of Rivendell. The answer is, of course, that your patron must be someone who roams. Gandalf, Rangers, High Elves, and dwarves all travel through eastern Eriador, though most just use the East Road. Remember, Aragorn himself said he was not very familiar with the troll-country, so Rangers probably don't go there unless they have to.

Eastern Eriador is EMPTY. Basing two entire books on it was, perhaps, a mistake.

Correction: There are no MAJOR settlements besides Bree and Rivendell in Eastern Eriador. There are minor holdings scattered about.

And lots of ruins.

There's not shortage of meat in those books. Rivendell as a setting book is weak sauce, yes... but the rivendell book not primarily a setting book. It's a major rules expansion as well as a setting book. Songs, magic items, two new playable cultures...

Not every region sourcebook needs to be a place to set an entire campaign. In fact, some would be downright dull for actions against Sauron.... The Shire, for example. Until Bilbo goes away, not much of note happens there. But it's not a bad place to adventure FROM... the bounds are kept by the Shirriffs, and their bounders - a dozen officers, and maybe half a score bounders. But they can and do have missions need doing beyond the edge. Find thatband of goblins been raiding. See if that really was a troll old hobb Turner saw.

Not every adventure needs to be tied to the darkening. In fact, some should be lighter fare, and that's where lesser men, like the Shirriffs can be good. If you've a hobbit in the party, his local farthing's shirriffs are already poised to be a patron to him. Envision: "Morden, lad, you claim you've a friend who is an elf... perhaps you could get me his help with a wildcat near the east boundary? My men can''t quite keep up the hunt, and it's taken ten cattle already." Doesn't matter much on the big scene, but it does present (1) a reason to travel, (2) a reason for Morden to raise status, (3) a foe. And perhaps a mystery to solve. (And quite the rumor when a man, two dwarves, and an elf show up at the bounds and camp, as Morden fetches the Shirriff.) Or, "Morden, Mr. Brewer needs someone to take his load of whiskey to Laketown. Ten percent he's offering to stout swords. Shouldn't be too hard, a wagon, 3 casks, and his eldest. You have been there..."

[Stormcrow]

Tom's isn't suited for a sanctuary - while it''s safe from shadow, man, and beast, it's also not someplace one makes their way to.

Oh? Gandalf does exactly that after the War of the Ring. And how do you know one does not set out for Tom's house? Seems to me he's a good host and enjoys having visitors.

Re: Shirrifs:

They're of great importance in the shire... essentially, they are captains of the guard, and used to dealing with the outsiders.

There is no "guard." They are not captains. "They were in practice rather haywards than policemen, more concerned with the strayings of beasts than of people."

The Shire could field more hobbits, called Bounders, in times of need. "A rather larger body, varying at need, was employed to ‘beat the bounds’, and to see that Outsiders of any kind, great or small, did not make themselves a nuisance." But of course we know that such outsiders were of minor importance, since the Rangers were protecting the Shire from anything greater. And there's nothing to indicate that the Shirrifs were in charge of the Bounders.

A sanctuary is more than a place to sleep and get supper; it is a place that is especially suitable for the fellowship phase activities of adventurers. An isolated homestead wouldn't likely qualify.

Let's look at the definition from the rules (which either you missed or misread):

Yes, lets: "A number of locations are considered sanctuaries, special places particularly suited to support the needs of a company of adventurers, and inhabited by a host willing to welcome them."

You're looking for strongholds against evil

I never said that. I said "suitable for the fellowship phase activities of adventurers."

Tom's fails on #4... you can find it only when Tom wishes.

How do you conclude this? Have I forgotten something in the text?

The trouble with patrons and sanctuaries in eastern Eriador is that there are no settlements outside of Rivendell.

Correction: There are no MAJOR settlements besides Bree and Rivendell in Eastern Eriador. There are minor holdings scattered about.

Bree is not in "eastern Eriador" as laid out by The One Ring supplements, hence my suggestion that splitting Eriador between books might be a mistake.

As for settlements: "In those days [when the hobbits arrive in Bree] no other Men had settled dwellings so far west [as Bree], or within a hundred leagues of the Shire. But in the wild lands beyond Bree there were mysterious wanderers." Men have no "settled dwellings," major OR minor, in Eriador except for Bree and the lands about it. Dwarves? Elves? Hobbits? Maaaayyyyyybeeee, but probably not.

Not every adventure needs to be tied to the darkening.

You seem to be arguing with me against things I never said.

[jp1971]

I think everyone’s responses highlight the challenge of choosing suitable patrons and sanctuaries in Eastern Eriador. So far, you’ve all given me a lot to think about. Thanks for that!

As I’ve read through the responses and done some additional thinking on this myself, I’ve come to the conclusion that presenting my player-heroes with some options (through game play of course!) and letting them decide the sanctuaries and patrons with which they want to interact will work best for my group’s style of play.

Below is some of the aforementioned additional thinking:

Sanctuaries

Bree
As some have mentioned in the thread, Bree could be a good location for a “chance” meeting with Gandalf or perhaps a scheduled rendezvous with a Dúnadan. However, while it’s easily accessible and well populated (by Eriador’s standards), it seems the available Fellowship phase undertakings would be limited.

Rivendell
To me, it’s the only sanctuary presented in the Rivendell book because it makes the most sense, especially if you want to engage in some of the new Fellowship undertakings (e.g. Go See a Loremaster) or tie into the larger narrative of the growing Shadow in the east. I think this quote from The Silmarillion is a great summary of the concept of sanctuary in the game itself - “the house of Elrond was a refuge for the weary and the oppressed, and a treasury of good council and wise lore.”

That said, Rivendell as a sanctuary shouldn’t be a forgone conclusion just because it makes the most sense. With this in mind, it becomes a narrative challenge more than anything else. Presenting players with options, leaving the decision to them and having them roleplay their way to Rivendell will help keep its use as a sanctuary from feeling canned.

The Shire
I find this quote about the Bounders from the Prologue of The Fellowship of the Ring interesting: “A rather larger body, varying at need, was employed to ‘beat the bounds’, and to see that Outsiders of any kind, great or small, did not make themselves a nuisance.” To me, it implies a certain attitude towards Outsiders that isn’t exactly positive.

Of course not all parts of The Shire are the same, and player-heroes would be more likely to receive a positive reception in Buckland or Tookland than elsewhere.

Patrons

Elrond
In the same vein as my thinking on Rivendell above, Elrond is presented as the main patron in the sourcebook because he makes the most sense. There is, of course, the section on The White Council as a Patron on page 20 of *Rivendell* (thanks again Otaku-Sempai). But, with the exception of Saruman, their goals are going to be more or less the same.

That said, if you want to play out a narrative other than the growing Shadow and the coming war, then Elrond might not be the best patron after all.

Gandalf
For some reason, Gandalf as a patron feels heavy handed to me, especially at the early stages of a campaign. However, having him show up seemingly out of the blue only to send a company off an adventure fits well within his known behavior. Like Elrond, Gandalf can definitely tie the player-heroes into the greater narrative.

Halbarad
Halbarad or another Captain of the Dúnedain could make a great patron for a campaign that remains in Eriador for its duration or, at least, for multiple Adventure phases. As he said of Hobbits, “Little do they know of our long labor for the safekeeping of their borders”. This “long labor” could be the focus of such a campaign or Adventure phases.

The Master of Buckland, The Thain
Like Halbarad, these figures could make great patrons for a campaign that remains in Eriador for some time as both are known to be aware of the dangers of the world outside of Buckland and the Shire.

Thanks again for all of the great responses so far. Like I said, it’s given me a lot to think about and, in the course of doing so, I have a much better idea of how to present patron and sanctuary to my players.

[Otaku-sempai]

Granted, there has not as yet been any official coverage of Western Eriador and Lindon, and we know little so far about how the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains are organized. However, I don't understand why you seem to dismiss Cirdan the Shipwright as a Patron and the Grey Havens as a Sanctuary.

[Angelalex242]

I'm honestly kind of unsure what Cirdan has to offer as a Patron. I mean, I suppose he might give the party a free boating specialty, but...

[jp1971]

I definitely don't mean to dismiss Cirdan or the Grey Havens. I actually find him fascinating in the context of the history of the Elves in Middle-earth.

As a patron, one of the interesting things about Cirdan is that we know a good deal about him from the perspective of the legendarium but very little from the perspective of the narrative of The Lord of the Rings. As such, we have in him a character who is tightly bound to the war with the Enemy but not as tightly bound to canon.

Thanks for calling my attention back to both. I'm going to find a way to work in Cirdan and the Grey Havens as meaningful options for my player-heroes.