Horselords of Rohan Update October 21st 2015

[Glorelendil]

Let's make sure to re-visit this topic (of the breeding of half-orcs) after Horselords comes out...

[Arthadan]

Sauron also had a ready supply of Mannish slaves in the fields of Nurn in Mordor, where they grew food for the armies of the Dark Lord.

Yes, but Sauron was into uruk breeding, It was Saruman who had Half-orcs and Goblin-men.

[Finrod Felagund]

I'd have captives of both sexes, after all some generations of them are needed!

If I recall correctly the captives would be Dunledings (they few ones who were in good terms with the Rohirrim?).

Now, where would Saruman keep them? As head of the White Council it'sunlikely he would risk to have them in Orthanc itself for about 200 years (assuming four generations with an average lifespam of 50 years due to hard conditions). I'd place them in some hidden cave in south extreme of the misty Mountains, near Nan Curunír.

Maybe the most interesting question is who would do the job? Orcs doesn't seem a good choice, prisioners would end up killed or eaten in no time. Saruman would have other matters to attend, he could supervise from time to time but no way he's doing the daily job. Looks like we'd need a new antagonist for this plot!

An old favourite such the Gibbet King would be a winner,I can picture him licking his wounds and gloating on the suffering of the prisioners. A dark plot indeed...

Quite disturbing the mental image of Orcs "misstreating" females prisioners. No wonder Celebrían sailed West... Now that I think about it, Tolkien seems to hint something along those lines "she had suffered much at the hands of the Orcs" and then Elrond could heal her body but not her spirit.

I don't know if Glorelendil's comment means that he thinks that C7 will address captives, but I'd guess some could also be Rohirrim. It would be quite easy to create an adventure called "Free the Captives" or something where the heroes have to launch a rescue before the captives reach Isengard. After that it's too late as I reckon they would be kept in caves below Isengard. Saruman probably started using/digging them well before 3019. Unless as you say, he has a servant he can trust (someone who's extremely twisted), I suspect that Saruman managed the captives closely himself with Orcs as assistants. As I said earlier, the whole thing is extremely dark and nasty.

I also spotted Tolkien's line about Celebrian and came to the same conclusion. JRRT was of that generation that saw death and destruction in real life and didn't think it was appropriate to describe or glamourise it. This led critics such as Edmund Wilson to allege that LoTR was a book for adolescents where everyone comes home safe - something that's not true (Frodo for example clearly has PTSD amongst various wounds).

[Arthadan]

The previous incarnation of a Middle-earth game had Goblin-men bred from different human stock which reflected in their appereance and skills. Particulary nasty were the trackers bred from Woses (specially keen senses and adept at using poisoned weapons).

I doubt Saruman would risk having Orcs around Isengard 200 years before the War of the Ring, that would seriously jeopardize his position as head of the White Council. This pet project should have taken place in the utmost secrecy.

So a band of Heroes discovering this in a isolate location should have a hard time finding any kind of evidence to link it with Saruman (but of course if they do, Saruman would make sure they tell nobody specially before Théoden is undermined).

[Terisonen]

There is some really dark corner in the books of Tolkien. Sometimes, it's somewhat more strong to let you thinking of the suffering of the slaves or victim of minion of the dark lord than to explain all in crude term.

-"'You see the worst that can happen?"

-"I see it"

-"Worse even"

[Ernst-Jan]

As was said before this is sensitive and unfamiliar content for an RPG but I do believe this can be adequately executed with The One Ring. The horror of the thing is probably best conveyed by suggesting rather than descripting. I don't think the early experiments would take place in or near Orthanc, but rather some controlled environment nearby, a cave in Nan Curunir as someone said, perhaps, collaborating with a tribe of Orcs.

[Otaku-sempai]

Yes, but Sauron was into uruk breeding, It was Saruman who had Half-orcs and Goblin-men.

But might Sauron have developed his Uruk-hai with an influx of Mannish blood?

[Artaxastra]

Definitely sensitive material, but I agree it can be handled in the framework of The One Ring. This system handles dark material so well, and there is scope for tragedy and darkness as well as heroism. Or perhaps it's that heroism shows best against the dark background!

We've finished Darkening of Mirkwood and Ruins of the North, so I'm winging it with original material which was also woven in, and one of the NPCs my players have met is The Grandmother, one of the oldest orcs. Their shock when they found out that she had originally been a Sindarin Elf of Beleriand who was captured in the First Age was profound -- more so when they discovered that she had chosen not to die, but to survive in her new form and lead her people. It was fascinating to watch how they reacted. The Silvan Elf was originally very negative and wanted to kill her, while the Woodman was much more interested in seeing if they could cut a deal. (They have.)

[Arthadan]

Orc are not immortal according to Tolkien.

It remains therefore terribly possible there was an Elvish strain in the Orcs.(10) These may then even have been mated with beasts (sterile!) - and later Men. Their life-span would be diminished. And dying they would go to Mandos and be held in prison till the End.
History of Middle-earth vol. X - Morgoth's Ring.

There are some lesser Maiar in Orc form (most if not all unable to slained and unable to create new bodies by the end of the Third Age).

That said, in his reviosinist period Tolkien asked himself if Morgoth's corruption should be able to deprieve Elves from their "inmortality" (which was a gift of Eru). He explored the idea that only Men should have been used as stock to create Orcs, but that posed a serious problem with the chronology (Orcs are around long before Men). He also explored animals as a possible source (some kind of enhanced big simians, think of an evil version of what Valar did with the Great Eagles).

Bottom line is one way or another they are not immortal (unless they are Maiar, of course). Either Morgoth managed to remove their immortality (to keep compatibility with the chronology) or the addition of Men and animals to the mix did the trick.

[Majestic]

That's awesome that you've finished off Darkening (and Ruins, too), Artaxastra. How long has your group been playing? and how often do you get together? That's some serious commitment, with a lot of ground covered!

@Arthadan: fascinating stuff; I didn't realize some Maiar took Orcish form; I might have to incorporate that in my game some day!