Detailed Encounter Example

[gentlemansavage]

I'm sure this has been requested before, and I apologize for not finding it - I did search the forums and look through the TOR resources - but I'm hoping someone can link me to a detailed example of a social Encounter. My group (face-to-face for almost 2 years) has been struggling with this part of TOR and I'm afraid I have not adequately helped in that time. I thought, perhaps, that if there was a detailed example of an encounter, like there is of combat in the core rulebook, I might have them read it and use it as a model for their own interactions.

Many thanks, and I apologize once again for any repetition of posts here on the forum.

[Falenthal]

Your request is a much needed stuff in the rules, as probably the Encounter rules are the most open to interpretation there are in TOR. With my limited knowledge of English and subject to my own interpretation of how the Encounters work, I'll try to write down an example of how Encounters should be run. I hope any mistakes I make will be a starting point for a healthy discussion of how to best run Encounters.

A group of four heroes playing "The Marhs Bell" are going to answer Glóin's pledge for help. The LM decides this will run as an Encounter.
[LM tip: As you have prepared the adventure, you already know the group is going to have an Encounter with Glóin. Knowing that beforehand, you can have the Tolerance already calculed: know which is the highest Valour in the group (Glóin prizes Valour over Wisdom in this situation), reduce the number by one if there are any elves (just -1, not -1 per elf), add the Standing of any dwarf who has a Standing rating among Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain, add +1 because the adventure says so, as Glóin is in a hurry.]

After describing how Glóin's house looks like, how he looks like, his office, etc, simply tell your players they're having an Encounter with Glóin. Ask them to roll Insight to gain bonus dice for the Encounter.
[LM tip: You can give some info to the players to represent what those bonus die mean: you can tell them they can see Glóin is upset and in a hurry, so probably choosing a spokesman would be a better option than individual introductions. Beware, this is NOT in the rules, but personally I think this is a good place to give the players some info on the NPC and how to better address him/her. If an NPC is also said to have higher TN against a certain skill, I also tell the players here if someone manages to roll a great or extraordinary success.]

Roleplay the Introduction. For example, here you could say someting like:
"Oh, welcome adventurers! I see we have some brave folks [Glóin is interested in Valour] still in Wilderland. Oh, and also an elf from Mirkwood"- he seems to grind his teeth as he says the word "elf". [introducing the fact he doesn't like elves] "Well, well, my name is Glóin, an emissary from the Lonely Mountain here in Lake-town, as you all probably know since you've knocked at my door. And who might this young men and women be?"

[LM tip: have a blank sheet of paper handy, and write down the amount of Tolerance, and a space for counting the number of successes if you use the (recommended) optional rule. As players fail and succeed during the Encounter, update the numbers in the sheet.]

Here ask your players if they want to choose a single spokesman or they want to make individual introductions. This is probably the trickiest part of an Encounter, as it determines to some extent how much each player can intervine for the rest of the Encounter. Warn them that those heroes that haven't introduced themselves won't be able to adress the NPC for the rest of the Encounter, and will be allowed only to use skills directed at helping the spokesman (Insight on the NPC, Riddle to notice something hidden in his words,...) [Note: This other rolls will also count towards the level of success of the Encounter. Also, some people consider this to be too harsh (myself included) and what we do is that those heroes not individiually introduced have their first skill test during Interaction raised by +2. If they succeed, all other tests are made at the normal TN. If failed, they aren't allowed to talk anymore as they have shown a disrespect for the universal formal manners. This House Rule also leans in the fact that the book says that heroes that didn't introduce themselves usually can't take an active role, but it has not always to be case.]

Once the Introduction has been made, the Interaction begins. Depending on the Encounter, maybe the NPC tells them something about whay he has summoned them (as is the case with Glóin) and then the heroes ask their questions, or if it were the heroes who wanted to talk to this NPC, then it's their turn to expose their case.
Continuing the example of Glóin in The Marsh Bell, he first explains the part about Balin being lost, probably somewhere in the Long Marshes. After that, in turns, every player has a chance to say, comment, ask,... something.
For example, a player with high Lore could say: "I tell him that I know a bit about the terrains he's talking about, and that the Marshes are a dangerous place to cross."
LM: "Ok, roll Lore at TN14 (if he was the spokesman or introduced himself during the Introduction)"
Player: <rolls a great success>
LM: <adds 2 successes to his sheet> "Glóin stares at you with delight: "Oh, it would be great if someone with such knowledge could be in the party that's going to look for my cousin. I would be much reliefed!".

Another player wants to discover if Glóin is hidding something from them. The LM proposes a roll of Riddle or Insight, as the player wishes. The player chooses Riddle... and fails!
LM: <substracts 1 from Tolerance> "All of a sudden you ask Glóin if there's some information he might be keeping to himself. You realize the moment you say it that it was rude. Glóin tells you coldly: "I'm hiring you to save my kin. Do you think I wouldn't give you all the help needed to do such a task?"

And so on...

[Note: everybody's experience differs in how to play the player's interventions. Sometimes players roleplay everything they want to say and roll afterwards; if the roll was a failure or success, it is up to the LM to come up with a proper reaction for the NPC. Other times, they tell the LM in a sentence what they want to say and, after deciding which skill is appropiate, they roll; depending on the result, the player roleplays what his hero says in a way or another. Do it the way you feel more confortable with your group.]

When does an Encounter end?
There are two main different ways to end an Encounter:
1) The players don't have anything more to say or ask. Just count how many successes they achieved and narrate the outcome.
2) The Tolerance is over. IMPORTANT: Tolerance is over when it hits 0 and they make ANOTHER failure. So, when the Tolerance goes from 1 to 0, the Encounter isn't over. It's the next failure that makes it end.
Also important, when Tolerance is over, the conversation can continue. Just keep in mind that further rolls won't add anything to the number of successes.

For groups who know the rules and are bookkeepers themselves, they may end an encounter once they've reached 7 successes. But that's a kind of metagaming. In fact, not all Encounters have the maximum success at 7+. There are some that need less or more successes to get the maximum reward.

I hope this example helps, and ask anything else you need about it. Encountes are difficult at the beginning, but they are great when players have understood the mechanics.
Also there are some House Rules for Encounters that are very interesting, but I tried to make an example as true as possible to the rules as written.

[Stormcrow]

After describing how Glóin's house looks like, how he looks like, his office, etc, simply tell your players they're having an Encounter with Glóin. Ask them to roll Insight to gain bonus dice for the Encounter.

Before doing this, make sure the players have defined the goal of the encounter. Any tasks they perform during the encounter should relate to this goal. Unrelated actions should either be automatic or should at least not count toward Tolerance or reward.

Then decide whether the Loremaster character wants to resist the players' goal. Tasks regarding a fully cooperative Loremaster character are automatic actions. Only if the character has a reason to oppose the players should you roll for an action. You also shouldn't accumulate successes or failures when the character is cooperative.

Resistance isn't necessarily hostility. A shy character resists opening up to the player-heroes. A merchant resists giving the heroes a good price.

Also, some people consider this to be too harsh (myself included) and what we do is that those heroes not individiually introduced have their first skill test during Interaction raised by +2. If they succeed, all other tests are made at the normal TN. If failed, they aren't allowed to talk anymore as they have shown a disrespect for the universal formal manners.

Another possibility: any hero who tries to perform a task without having introduced himself rolls normally, but automatically lowers the Tolerance by one. This outburst counts as his introduction.

For example, a player with high Lore could say: "I tell him that I know a bit about the terrains he's talking about, and that the Marshes are a dangerous place to cross."
LM: "Ok, roll Lore at TN14 (if he was the spokesman or introduced himself during the Introduction)"
Player: <rolls a great success>
LM: <adds 2 successes to his sheet> "Glóin stares at you with delight: "Oh, it would be great if someone with such knowledge could be in the party that's going to look for my cousin. I would be much reliefed!".

Make sure that the goal of each task, both here and for tasks in general, is clearly understood. In this case the player is trying to impress Gloin with his knowledge of the Long Marshes.

1) The players don't have anything more to say or ask. Just count how many successes they achieved and narrate the outcome.

The "outcome" is not the result of any single task performed, but any reward or advantage the players may enjoy by having succeeded at those related tasks. In the case of the players trying to be hired by Gloin, the outcome determines how favorable the terms of their employment are. The more successes, the more their fee and/or the more equipment Gloin will provide.

See also my summary of the encounter sequence.

[Falenthal]

[LM tip: You can give some info to the players to represent what those bonus die mean: you can tell them they can see Glóin is upset and in a hurry, so probably choosing a spokesman would be a better option than individual introductions. Beware, this is NOT in the rules, but personally I think this is a good place to give the players some info on the NPC and how to better address him/her. If an NPC is also said to have higher TN against a certain skill, I also tell the players here if someone manages to roll a great or extraordinary success.]

After reading the rules again, I saw a part that I had disregarded. The RAW says that, before the Introduction and after the Preliminary rolls, the characters are allowed a Lore roll if they've been able to learn something about the NPC beforhand (or the customs of his culture, etc). It is this Lore roll the one that can give the characters the info about what are the better options for the upcoming Encounter: individual presentations or spokesman, avoiding Awe tests in front of Beorn, using Courtesy whenever possible with Thranduil, etc.

I found that rolling for Preliminary, then for Lore and then for the Introduction was too much rolling before even starting to mention the theme that brought everyone together. I decided to merge the Insight of Preliminary with the Lore test.

[Falenthal]

make sure the players have defined the goal of the encounter. Any tasks they perform during the encounter should relate to this goal. Unrelated actions should either be automatic or should at least not count toward Tolerance or reward.

Then decide whether the Loremaster character wants to resist the players' goal. Tasks regarding a fully cooperative Loremaster character are automatic actions. Only if the character has a reason to oppose the players should you roll for an action. You also shouldn't accumulate successes or failures when the character is cooperative.

Resistance isn't necessarily hostility. A shy character resists opening up to the player-heroes. A merchant resists giving the heroes a good price.

True. I usually skip this part, as I consider everything that is said during an Encounter important regarding the impression a certain NPC gets of the group, but what Stormcrow says is true to the RAW.

The "outcome" is not the result of any single task performed, but any reward or advantage the players may enjoy by having succeeded at those related tasks. In the case of the players trying to be hired by Gloin, the outcome determines how favorable the terms of their employment are. The more successes, the more their fee and/or the more equipment Gloin will provide.

Exactly that. I was referring to the table and rule exposed in p.189 of the Revised Book.

[gentlemansavage]

First of all, thank you Falenthal for taking so much time to write up this detailed example of an encounter. I've learned a few tidbits even after years of playing!

Once the Introduction has been made, the Interaction begins. Depending on the Encounter, maybe the NPC tells them something about whay he has summoned them (as is the case with Glóin) and then the heroes ask their questions, or if it were the heroes who wanted to talk to this NPC, then it's their turn to expose their case.
Continuing the example of Glóin in The Marsh Bell, he first explains the part about Balin being lost, probably somewhere in the Long Marshes. After that, in turns, every player has a chance to say, comment, ask,... something.

This is where my group struggles most. They just struggle to come up with questions. They should stem from their goal for the encounter, but... Maybe it's because I've had seven players and they're afraid to step on each other's toes?

[Note: everybody's experience differs in how to play the player's interventions. Sometimes players roleplay everything they want to say and roll afterwards; if the roll was a failure or success, it is up to the LM to come up with a proper reaction for the NPC. Other times, they tell the LM in a sentence what they want to say and, after deciding which skill is appropiate, they roll; depending on the result, the player roleplays what his hero says in a way or another. Do it the way you feel more confortable with your group.]

I've added a little house rule to encourage roleplaying, so that I gift a +2 bonus to their roll if the roleplaying is good (never any penalties).

When does an Encounter end?
There are two main different ways to end an Encounter:
1) The players don't have anything more to say or ask. Just count how many successes they achieved and narrate the outcome.
2) The Tolerance is over. IMPORTANT: Tolerance is over when it hits 0 and they make ANOTHER failure. So, when the Tolerance goes from 1 to 0, the Encounter isn't over. It's the next failure that makes it end.
Also important, when Tolerance is over, the conversation can continue. Just keep in mind that further rolls won't add anything to the number of successes.

I was not aware that they got another failure after they hit 0!

[MasterSmithwise]

I didn't realize that 0 tolerance wasn't the end either. But, I also don't count riddle or insight rolls against tolerance as those are often "listening" skills. You can use Riddle to phrase a statement and essentially bluff, or as the rules state, you can use it to decipher something someone says. So failing a "thinking" check shouldn't affect tolerance in the slightest. This being the case, having the conversation end at 0 balances well with my group since they often only attempt things they are highly skilled at, and can roll riddles and insights all day without penalty. When they fail I simply give them either nothing, or an incorrect piece of information.

[Falenthal]

This is where my group struggles most. They just struggle to come up with questions. They should stem from their goal for the encounter, but... Maybe it's because I've had seven players and they're afraid to step on each other's toes?

Maybe you can give them some examples of questions what they could say: ask if there are any plans of how to rescue somenone (Persuade, or Battle, or even Riddle), encourage the NPC to have faith in the group (Inspire or Song), promise that you won't stop until the quest is done (Awe or Inspire),... sometimes the interactions don't need all to be functional (Persuade to convince him to pay more Treasure to the group), they also can include roleplaying and "emotional" interaction ("In Dale we still sing songs about the deeds of Thorin's Company. If Balin survived a dragon, he can survive anything. Let me sing you the bits about your cousin, my mother sang me we I was afraid of the dark. Ahem..." <Follows Song test>).
Some groups find it difficult to interact beyond the "where do we have to go?", "what is our reward?", "can you provide us with horses and food?", "when do we leave?", but you as LM have the task to show them examples of other interactions they can have, and how more heroic the Encounters result then.

I've added a little house rule to encourage roleplaying, so that I gift a +2 bonus to their roll if the roleplaying is good (never any penalties).

That's a nice house-rule.
A variant that would fit in the rules is the fact that some NPCs react better (have lower TNs) at certain skill tests than others, or at certain arguments than others. So, if a PC says he's trying to Persuade Thranduil of helping a group of dwarves, the TN could be 16 (or 18!). If the player says he presents the situation by saying that the group of dwarves would leave the Elven Kingdom faster if they were helped by the elves, then maybe you could rule that this argument lowers the TN to 14. It's also a way of encouraging your players to think what they say, not just "I roll for Persuade".
But this little rules are not mutually exclusive: you can adjust the TN of each test depending on the roleplay, the argumentation, the skill used,...

[Majestic]

I didn't realize that 0 tolerance wasn't the end either. But, I also don't count riddle or insight rolls against tolerance as those are often "listening" skills. You can use Riddle to phrase a statement and essentially bluff, or as the rules state, you can use it to decipher something someone says. So failing a "thinking" check shouldn't affect tolerance in the slightest. This being the case, having the conversation end at 0 balances well with my group since they often only attempt things they are highly skilled at, and can roll riddles and insights all day without penalty. When they fail I simply give them either nothing, or an incorrect piece of information.

While you're of course welcome to do things however you want, I'll just add that I'm pretty sure my group has never once failed an Encounter (even the one with the teensy-weensy Tolerance: the Dragon in Tales). And I do think as per the RAW, giving them a success (or failure) for anything of consequence during the Encounter (even Insight, Riddle, and the other "thinking" or "hidden" Skills).

There's been a couple that have been dramatic (where it might have been close, based on some bad rolls or what-have-you), but even giving them rolls for everything should still allow for them to succeed the vast majority of the time.

Don't forget to allow them to use their Traits for automatic successes! It will only give them a single success per usage (i.e., no chance of getting two or three successes with a great or extraordinary roll), but Traits like Fair-Spoken are perfect for Encounters.

Kudos to Falenthal for the great, detailed examples.

[MasterSmithwise]

I didn't realize that 0 tolerance wasn't the end either. But, I also don't count riddle or insight rolls against tolerance as those are often "listening" skills. You can use Riddle to phrase a statement and essentially bluff, or as the rules state, you can use it to decipher something someone says. So failing a "thinking" check shouldn't affect tolerance in the slightest. This being the case, having the conversation end at 0 balances well with my group since they often only attempt things they are highly skilled at, and can roll riddles and insights all day without penalty. When they fail I simply give them either nothing, or an incorrect piece of information.

While you're of course welcome to do things however you want, I'll just add that I'm pretty sure my group has never once failed an Encounter (even the one with the teensy-weensy Tolerance: the Dragon in Tales).

Personally I feel like that's not a good thing. If this was the case for my players they just wouldn't care anymore. There's no tension or fear of failure. A false safety net. Likewise, my group isn't ever spending hope and will likely never suffer from a bout of madness. To me this means that I'm potentially making things too easy. The whole point of hope is to signify the hopelessness of the current age in the game. Heroes more hopeful accomplish greater tasks. Instead my players just opt for failure, likely because the consequences don't matter to them for whatever reason.

So, I really think that players should, and need, to fail encounters at times. It's a part of the experience, and shows that the heroes won't always get what they want and have to improvise from time to time when things to go according to plan. Sure, players can be cautious and calculated and avoid the vast majority of failures, but they really need to fail at least a few times.

That's just my opinion, of course.