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Otaku-sempai wrote:Well, the Forsaken Inn was only one day's travel east of Bree. It wasn't quite in the middle of nowhere. I should think that it could still get enough business from nearby homesteads and travelers to sustain itself; although, it may have been a near thing in the dark years leading up to the War of the Ring.

Yes, provided that people live in that direction! To me, the names Lonelands/Eriador and Forsaken Inn suggest that the inn is on the verge of nowhere. Apparently there are not enough homesteads and travelers to support an inn one day's travel further east (or there would be an inn there too). Thus nearly all of the homesteads would be to the west, suggesting that the Forsaken Inn would have to rely on travellers. Who are few and far between.

I like the idea that the inn kept falling into disrepair, then someone tried again for a few years, rinse and repeat. Fits with Tolkien's view of it as abandoned but not yet a ruin.

Terisonen wrote:We know that the Old Ford is firmly in the hand of Beorn by the War of The Ring. We know also that the Beorning take a toll at the Ford. They're must be some trafic alongside otherwise no toll would be collected. So we can say that some of the trafic would goes to Bree, passing by the last bridge and the Forsaken Inn. It could have been in disuse by the War of The Ring because the road would not be secure by this time.

From the 1960 abandoned Hobbit rewrite, if we accept it, we can suppose that there was not enough traffic at the time of the Hobbit to support an inn east of Bree. We also know that goblins and trolls had been increasing in the mountains and causing trouble for travelers and villages. Woodmen are only just starting to establish (or reestablish) villages near the Road east of the mountains, although in The One Ring the woodmen are promoted to an ancient culture that has been in that place for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. So at this time travel is extremely treacherous and probably couldn't be enough to support an inn.

Immediately after the Hobbit, traffic starts to increase. Trade begins with the Lonely Mountain. Beorn starts to lay down the law in the Anduin valley. Goblins have been depleted by the Battle of Five Armies. Dale is reestablished. This would be a time of great increase in trade, and an inn is conceivable.

However, once Sauron declares himself in Mordor, all that would start to be reversed. Goblins begin to multiply again. Trolls become smarter. Beornings are hard-pressed to fend off enemies. In the novels, the woodmen have apparently left or been wiped out, although it's likely that The One Ring expects them to remain. Dol Guldur is reinhabited. All of this would cause traffic to peak and decline. The Forsaken Inn, if reestablished, would probably be forsaken again.

In the years leading up to the War of the Ring, southerners come up the Greenway to Bree. They're generally not welcome. If they are to be guests at the inn, aside from having to travel a day toward nowhere, they'd give the inn a bad reputation. Dale is being targeted by Mordor. Whereas the atmosphere of The Hobbit is one of lonely and abandoned lands, the atmosphere of The Lord of the Rings is one of danger and enemies watching. Maintaining an inn at the edge of what little civilization there is seems unlikely.

Glorelendil wrote:

Rich H wrote:

Blubbo Baggins wrote:Or perhaps the Innkeeper is merely a manager, and the owner IS Saruman?

For certain campaigns (ie, time period) that would be perfect. As mentioned upthread it could be a great place for contacts and for Saruman's agents to meet. And funded by Old Sharkey to keep it running even when not used regularly! For my campaign, set on 3001, this was certainly an option I was playing with. I'm not sure how early you could go for this to still be viable though - would have to do a little research.

Subtle hints and some awareness by the players (although tough to do without metagaming) could lead the players to wonder, "How on earth does that place stay in business?"

I've worked on, and conceptually a huge fan of, plots and adventures that let the players almost discover before anybody else that Saruman is a fink, but never with quite enough evidence to prove it, or at least to convince anybody important of its truth. I feel it's a way to take what could be a narrative liability, i.e. the fact that all the players already know one of the big secrets of the Third Age, and turn it into genuine suspense. "Oh my god are we going to expose Saruman and change history!?!?!" Almost, but nope. Sorry!

(Of course, for the canon revisionists, the answer might be yes.)

I'm loving this; I wish we had a bit more of a handle on the 'official' interpretation, cause I feel like there's a strong chance of fan material here, if we knew that we weren't going to be stepping on any toes.

(Shameless plug) Re discovering Saruman's plans early, I once put together this guide to the 1990's video game: http://fradmo.altervista.org/lrpc/

Sharkey's Shipping (map 2d) might provide an idea or two.

The name "Forsaken Inn" could easily come from pre-Smaug error, during which it could have been abandoned (well, as far as anybody knows) for a long time. But within a year or two of the death of Smaug and the diminishing of Orc activities, enterprising souls might have taken advantage of increased trade to re-open and restore it. (At which point the secret sub-basement excavated by the recent denizen might get discovered. Too bad the key seems to have been lost...)

Soon after re-opening, a southerner, somebody from a place called "Dunland", shows up seeking employment. The innkeeper is skeptical, but finds it hard to refuse the offer of work for nothing but room and board. Over time this Dunlending becomes indispensable, and when the owner shows signs of tiring of the work his assistant has a surprising offer: he wishes to buy the inn, with the help of a "wealthy distant relation", and take it over himself. The old man agrees, and departs for Bree, where he ensconces himself at the Prancing Pony, sharing drinks and telling stories. His stories are good because he has a knack for remembering details, some of which may cause certain former customers discomfort...

Glorelendil wrote: Soon after re-opening, a southerner, somebody from a place called "Dunland", shows up seeking employment. The innkeeper is skeptical, but finds it hard to refuse the offer of work for nothing but room and board. Over time this Dunlending becomes indispensable, and when the owner shows signs of tiring of the work his assistant has a surprising offer: he wishes to buy the inn, with the help of a "wealthy distant relation", and take it over himself. The old man agrees, and departs for Bree, where he ensconces himself at the Prancing Pony, sharing drinks and telling stories. His stories are good because he has a knack for remembering details, some of which may cause certain former customers discomfort...

Perfect. Looks like we've got an adventure.

zedturtle wrote:I think this could be an excellent brainstorming thread.

My current (2948) conception is that a group of ambitious Men from the Bree-lands have set up shop; as the heroes have entered the scene they are on the brink of thinking that robbery might be more profitable than innery. But the heroes had done well so far to convince them to walk the straight and narrow.

This hear sounds pretty good. The company can come in on this "transitional" stage in the innkeeper's career. I might use this when my group finally gets to Eriador.

Rich H wrote:

zedturtle wrote:Bear in mind that it is a days travel from Bree according to Strider, so your choice is camping out or going to the somewhat rundown Inn.

... That was sort of my point. Often people will simply push ahead to Bree or camp. It's one of those business ideas that people occasionally have; it sounds like they could provide some niche service but in practise it just doesn't work out. Then people forget or think they can do better and try again - history is littered with people repeating mistakes, isn't it? That's just one option though. Like I said, it all depends on if you have a specific idea for it. Mine was to allow the hobbit PCs to deal with a group of brigands and get involved with the Rangers - as their actions came to the attention of the Dunadan. Yours may well vary.

Finally in front of a real keyboard... I think we are kind of saying the same thing, although my point was that it really depends on what a day's travel means... does it mean a day's easy walk for a Hobbit (maybe ten miles, if that) or a regular day of travelling (the standard 20 miles) or is a day's journey as fast as a Ranger in need can go (40 miles, maybe more).

Frustratingly, Aragorn knew the mileage but failed to inform the hobbits of it.

But, yes, my point in introducing it is to have a place (like the Easterly Inn) where the actions of the heroes can influence its outcome. Maybe even have it serve to introduce plot hooks...

Stormcrow wrote:In the years leading up to the War of the Ring, southerners come up the Greenway to Bree. They're generally not welcome. If they are to be guests at the inn, aside from having to travel a day toward nowhere, they'd give the inn a bad reputation. Dale is being targeted by Mordor. Whereas the atmosphere of The Hobbit is one of lonely and abandoned lands, the atmosphere of The Lord of the Rings is one of danger and enemies watching. Maintaining an inn at the edge of what little civilization there is seems unlikely.

Yes and no. Most of the Southerners are refugees... either from Ithilien directly or displaced themselves by the refugees from Ithilien. Eerily similar to current affairs, most of the refugees would just be looking for somewhere safe to live. Only a few would be troublemakers, but of course that (and suspicion of strangers) could make it so that the Forsaken Inn (and the ruins of the hamlet around it) are the only place that the Southerners feel comfortable.

It also helps answer the question I've always had, where are the Southerners going to? I always wondered if the answer was Fornost, but thought that unlikely. Dispersing into eastern Bree-land sounds more plausible.

I said they weren't welcome and would bring a bad reputation; I didn't say they were troublemakers. The Breefolk were alarmed by the sheer numbers of them.