[Brothers to Bears] Underground

Adventure in the world of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings. Learn more at our website: http://www.cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-one-ring/
Glorelendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:02 pm

Kurt wrote: For me it's an "out and about in the woods" above ground ability.
I think we're almost entirely agreeing. I don't think it should work underground...that's the domain of Dwarves...but it just feels fiddly trying to decide whether or not moonlight can be "seen" on any given night. (Starlight doesn't count? Why not? Because the first paragraph doesn't specifically mention it? Exactly how much tree/cloud cover is required to reduce the number of photons arriving below the requisite threshold?)

But, as you note, it's up to the LM and the players to decide what works for them.
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Earendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Earendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:10 pm

Kurt wrote:
Glorelendil wrote:This game tries to strip away as much of that as possible to focus on the storytelling
I agree, its why I chose to purchase the game. Storytelling for me is a much more enjoyable experience than a dungeon craw. This is why I am so hot on making sense of a lot of the non-combat skills. Although I am a veteran gamer, I'm still learning this game. This game is very flexible in the way that you can play it, which is awesome, but with the flexibility comes a little bit of work. In the end it's the Loremasters story to run how he/she chooses as long as the players are happy and everyone is having fun.
I agree as well! (We're all being dangerously reasonable here, aren't we?)

I always hated that bookkeeping aspect of D&D where you had to keep count of exact money and what equipment you'd bought and how much it cost and the encumbrance of every little thing etc. I definitely agree that I don't want to count arrows in TOR unless it's dramatically useful -- "You're down to your last 3 arrows. Will you try and take down the troll, or 3 orcs?" :twisted:
The reason why I go the "Must see moonlight" approach in this case is neither because I am looking for the detail, or that I am arguing the rules. For me, it's because it makes sense. I feel that having the moonlight there is an enabler for how the eye actually works, rather than how or where the moon happens to be positioned. It's about the moonlight and not the position or rotation of the moon. For me it's an "out and about in the woods" above ground ability.
That's fair enough, although it does enhance hearing as well as sight - in fact, it's all perception rolls, which encourages me to think the moon is irrelevant.

But we all have limits to our suspension of disbelief. While I'm happy not to count arrows or coins or phases of the moon, I wouldn't be happy saying this Virtue almost always works at night if it requires the moon to be out, precisely because I'm aware that the moon is very often not out at night! Saying "well, it's night so the moon is out" would actually pull me out of the fictional world, because part of my brain would be going, "hang on, that's not right..."

I fully accept that not everyone is as anal as me. :D
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Glorelendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Earendil wrote:
But we all have limits to our suspension of disbelief. While I'm happy not to count arrows or coins or phases of the moon, I wouldn't be happy saying this Virtue almost always works at night if it requires the moon to be out, precisely because I'm aware that the moon is very often not out at night! Saying "well, it's night so the moon is out" would actually pull me out of the fictional world, because part of my brain would be going, "hang on, that's not right..."
Furthering this thought, the moon is not out all night when it's not full. I'd hate to keep track of that.
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Kurt
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Kurt » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:17 pm

Earendil wrote:Saying "well, it's night so the moon is out" would actually pull me out of the fictional world, because part of my brain would be going, "hang on, that's not right..."
This is true, but I'm not sitting near a calendar counting the days. :P

Earendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Earendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:19 pm

Glorelendil wrote:Furthering this thought, the moon is not out all night when it's not full. I'd hate to keep track of that.
Yes, i covered that in an earlier post! :) I pointed out that tonight for example, there's 5 hours between nightfall and moonrise in the UK, and that "obviously the intention of this Virtue is not that you should keep careful track of how long it applies each night!"
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Earendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Earendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:22 pm

Kurt wrote:
Earendil wrote:Saying "well, it's night so the moon is out" would actually pull me out of the fictional world, because part of my brain would be going, "hang on, that's not right..."
This is true, but I'm not sitting near a calendar counting the days. :P
Of course not! It's just that I'm too aware that "it's night" and "the moon is out" are two completely different and essentially unrelated things. Conflating the two would ruin my suspension of disbelief. I am aware this is probably entirely my problem. ;)
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Kurt
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Kurt » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:23 pm

Poor Pangea is going to log in and see a discussion on the topic that is way longer than it should have been :P

Earendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Earendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:29 pm

Getting back to the OP's question, do we have something like a consensus that the Virtue does not apply underground?

I'd say it doesn't apply indoors either, as it seems it's meant to be an "outdoor ability". But it would be nice if the rules actually specified!
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Glorelendil
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:30 pm

Earendil wrote:Getting back to the OP's question, do we have something like a consensus that the Virtue does not apply underground?
I think so, but to Kurt's point I don't think a consensus is needed: it's an interesting debate, and each LM should pick the interpretation that works for them.
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Feanor
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Re: [Brothers to Bears] Underground

Post by Feanor » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:13 pm

what Earendil said.

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