orc longevity

[Otaku-sempai]

Yes. What I probably should have written was, "The long lifespan of the Númenóreans owes possibly as much to the gift of long-life granted to Elros as to any descent from Thingol and Melian via Lúthien Tinúviel." And even that is debatable.

As to the origin of Wargs: Yes, I can see how Morgoth (or Sauron?) might have bred Werewolves with common wolves to produce the first Wargs. Now, I've seen this stated before, but I believe that it is incorrect: That if a Warg is slain then it's body dissipates in the morning light. If that were the case then how would Beorn have kept a Warg-pelt? I have always assumed that the wolves that the Fellowship fought while they were attempting to cross the Misty Mountains were Werewolves and not common Wargs. Is that correct?

[Arthadan]

That if a Warg is slain then it's body dissipates in the morning light. If that were the case then how would Beorn have kept a Warg-pelt? I have always assumed that the wolves that the Fellowship fought while they were attempting to cross the Misty Mountains were Werewolves and not common Wargs. Is that correct?

That's debatable as well. Tolkien never wrote that Wargs bodies disipate in the morning light and he did wrote Beorn kept a Warg-pelt. Then we can safely assume the wolves slain by the Fellowship were not Wargs or they did not banish.

When the full light of the morning came no signs of the wolves were to be found, and they looked in vain for the bodies of the dead. No trace of the fight remained but the charred trees and the arrows of Legolas lying on the hill-top. All were undamaged save one of which only the point was left.
`It is as I feared,' said Gandalf. `These were no ordinary wolves hunting for food in the wilderness. Let us eat quickly and go!'

Let's explore both options:
- They were Wargs: Then the rest of the pack must have taken the bodies away for an unknown reason.
- They were Werewolves: Then maybe they banished or were taken away by the rest of the pack to regenerate (if they are Maiar maybe they can do that). In fact Gandalf calls one of them "Hound of Sauron" and in the Old Days Sauron was the lord of Tol-in-Gaurhoth (the Isle of Werewolves) and their captain.

So far it seems likely they were Werewolves, therefore I've check out the Silmarillion for banishing Werewolves and found none. Closest thing is Sauron himself in wolf form fighting Huan, he "forsakes" his body when defeated and then his spirit takes a Vampire form and flees. No banishing bodies, in fact if they follow the normal rules, their physical bodies should remain, just like Elves when they die.

Which makes me think there is a Gandalf corpse on Zirakzigil.

[windsurfjunkie]

This is extremely interesting in Tolkien lore. I find that the possibility of wargs being "enchanted spirits" in wolf form to be the most likely - hence the Gandalf quote you gave, which I remember reading long ago. I have always interpreted it this way anyway. I think that some species of orcs can surely possess the same "enchanted" qualities which include long lifespan.
I have designed a Hobgoblin chief, "Dagruuk", that will have an ancient direct lineage from orc chieftains of the First Age, and therefore his lifespan will be extended (like Bolg) and part of a long, massive plot by the resurgent Sauron in Mordor, and his plans in Wilderland.
Thanks for your great contributions!

[Glorelendil]

Isn't the third possibility that they were neither wargs nor werewolves, but simply some form of spirit that only looked like wolves for a short time? Maybe entirely in their imaginations? Something that dissipated either with daylight or simply an enchantment wearing off.

[windsurfjunkie]

Hmmmm...sounds like a good twist in a storyline...well done.

cheers

[Arthadan]

Isn't the third possibility that they were neither wargs nor werewolves, but simply some form of spirit that only looked like wolves for a short time? Maybe entirely in their imaginations? Something that dissipated either with daylight or simply an enchantment wearing off.

Closer thing we have to that is Maiar in the Old Says, like Sauron battling Huan. He took the form of a wolf, was defeated and then turn into a vampire to escape. But the word Tolkien uses is "forsaking" the wolf body, meaning leaving it behind.

Now this is tricky. Maybe creatures born with a physical body (incarnates) such Elves or Wargs have a "real" body which remains after the spirit is gone, but Maiar have a body made out of Sorcery. So *maybe* those bodies can banish under the sunlight, as Tolkien wrote that the light of the Sun reveals of the tricks of the Enemy (something like that anyway) and that's why Stone-trolls come back to stone. This is pure speculation.

[Falenthal]

Isn't the third possibility that they were neither wargs nor werewolves, but simply some form of spirit that only looked like wolves for a short time? Maybe entirely in their imaginations? Something that dissipated either with daylight or simply an enchantment wearing off.

Closer thing we have to that is Maiar in the Old Says, like Sauron battling Huan. He took the form of a wolf, was defeated and then turn into a vampire to escape. But the word Tolkien uses is "forsaking" the wolf body, meaning leaving it behind.

Now this is tricky. Maybe creatures born with a physical body (incarnates) such Elves or Wargs have a "real" body which remains after the spirit is gone, but Maiar have a body made out of Sorcery. So *maybe* those bodies can banish under the sunlight, as Tolkien wrote that the light of the Sun reveals of the tricks of the Enemy (something like that anyway) and that's why Stone-trolls come back to stone. This is pure speculation.

If we'd like to apply the TOR rules to this situation, the Rivendell supplement talks about The Warg of the Redhorn Gate (p.34), who might be encountered between Eregion and the Redhorn Gate. This Warg uses the stats of a Hound of Sauron (with added Denizen of the Dark), a creature that is listed under the Werewolf category in the Core Book (p.247/248). So, a Hound of Sauron might posses the characteristics of vanishing at sunlight that you attribute to Werewolves, or at least this one that is specially tied to the darkness (as per the addition of the ability Denizen of the Dark).
At the time the Fellowship crosses the region, this Warg of the Redhorn Gate might have brought some "friends" to his side, compared to the lone life he leads in the Rivendell book.

Another option would be that they were Hill-men of Gundabad in Spirit-Warg form (Heart of the Wild p.14 and 115/116):

Should it be killed, the body of a spirit-wolf dissolves before the dawn, leaving no
trace.

What they were doing that far from home is anyone's guess. Witches returning at the service of Angmar is the most plausible answer.