Value of Sanctuaries

[Random221B]

Ok, I've kind of looked a little into this before, and I'm still not entirely clear on this...

What, exactly, are the benefits of a Sanctuary? Reading over the rules again, I see that the description of Fellowship Phases says:

The players are free to spend the phase at any place they
have already visited during the game.

So, a place does not have to be a Sanctuary for characters to spend their Fellowship phase there. I also noted that in the description of the Heal Corruption Undertaking, it says:

Characters spending their Fellowship phase in a
sanctuary are entitled to two rolls, while heroes who
returned home are allowed a single roll instead.

So that is one tangible benefit of spending an FP in a Sancturay--the ability to make two rolls to Heal Corruption, instead of just one.

(A couple of quick side questions on the above: 1) I assume that means that if you are successful on both rolls, you get to remove the total amount of Shadow indicated by both results, but it occurs to me that it *could* just mean that if you fail the first roll, you are entitled to try again. What do folks think? And 2) FPs can be spent anywhere the characters have already visited, but this Undertaking only mentions Sanctuaries and Home. I presume that means that this Undertaking cannot be...undertaken if you spend an FP somewhere other than a Sanctuary or Home?)

Anyway, back to my original topic, I'm going back through all the rules, because it has been a while, but so far I haven't come across any other tangible/mechanical benefit of turning someplace into a Sanctuary, other than the Heal Corruption one mentioned above. I looked through a list of all Undertakings from all books so far, that somebody compiled, which included info on where those Undertakings could be undertaken, and none of them specified Sanctuary Only, so as far as I can tell no Undertakings require you to be in a Sanctuary.

So, *are* there other mechanical/tangible benefits to making someplace a Sanctuary and then spending an FP there? And if so, what are they? If the benefits are largely roleplay-oriented or something the LM comes up with, I have no problem with that. Roleplay/narrative/story elements are all things I and my group very much enjoy, and we can run with that, with no problem. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something. The fact that the Open Sanctuary Undertaking requires all characters to select it together, everyone choosing to give up accomplishing any other Undertaking during that time, suggested to me that Sanctuaries were meant to be very useful somehow. Again, if that usefulness comes primarily from narrative and LM adjudication, and not from the game's mechanics, I have no problem with that. I just want to make sure I have a clear understanding.

Thanks for your time.

~~~~Random

[Stormcrow]

Under First Meeting in Company Creation, we get a hint as to what sanctuaries are: "these are Free Peoples strongholds, cities or villages known to welcome or, at least, tolerate the presence of adventurers."

Some more information on what a sanctuary is comes from The Company Repairs to a Sanctuary under The Fellowship Phase: "special places particularly suited to support the needs of a company of adventurers, and inhabited by a host willing to welcome them."

In the fellowship phase, there are two choices presented when choosing a destination: (a) the company repairs to a sanctuary, or (b) the company disbands temporarily ("each player chooses the location where his character repairs to").

The implication of all this is that if the company wants to stay together for a fellowship phase, it can only do so in a place that is suited to support them. The Open Sanctuary undertaking means you're spending your time making the location suitable: making friends, helping with the work, arranging for food and shelter whenever you stop by, building a small house for your group, getting your paperwork in order, whatever is needed in that location.

Suppose you have met Beorn and now it's time for a fellowship phase. You haven't made his house a sanctuary, so if you were to come as a company he'd shoo you off his land as unwanted freeloaders. But if one of you made a good impression on him he might be willing to put one, and only one, of you up for a while.

1) I assume that means that if you are successful on both rolls, you get to remove the total amount of Shadow indicated by both results, but it occurs to me that it *could* just mean that if you fail the first roll, you are entitled to try again.

It means you get the results of both rolls, not that you get to reroll a failure.

2) FPs can be spent anywhere the characters have already visited, but this Undertaking only mentions Sanctuaries and Home. I presume that means that this Undertaking cannot be...undertaken if you spend an FP somewhere other than a Sanctuary or Home?)

I'm sure anytime an undertaking mentions "home," it means "home, or someplace else you're spending the fellowship phase away from the company." The rules mention earlier that when disbanding the heroes usually go home, because they want to take care of their domestic business.

[Random221B]

Ok, so if I understand correctly, what you are saying is:

• There are two kinds of places characters can spend Fellowship Phases: Sanctuaries, and Anyplace Else
• Sanctuaries are the only place a Fellowship can all spend an FP together--if anybody wants to spend an FP somewhere other than a Sanctuary, they have to do it alone (or maybe with only 1 or 2 other companions)
• Anyplace that is not a Sanctuary or Home is equivalent to Home

The interpretations of the first two points are reasonable, though I don't know if I'm 100% sold on them. The third one, however, seems a little more problematic, as there is at least 1 Undertaking--Raise Standard of Living--that specifies that the companion must spend the FP at Home in order to undertake it. I assume, in that case, that Home means Home, and not "anyplace that isn't a Sanctuary." So, my question is, why would Home mean Home for that undertaking, but mean "Home or anyplace else that isn't a Sanctuary" for Heal Corruption?

[Stormcrow]

It's the common-sense interpretation. I don't think the writers were being quite that careful with their terminology.

[Random221B]

In a thread on a similar/related topic (Patrons) someone commented;

Opening Sanctuaries is useful, since to spend your Fellowship Phase in a place, it HAS to either be your home, a sanctuary, or if you ended up there during your Adventuring Phase.

Now, I find that very interesting, and may adopt that idea, but as far as I can tell, that's not actually true, by the rules. As I mentioned with my quote in the first post, the section on Fellowship Phases says that the players may spend their FP anywhere they have already visited "during the game." It does not say "during the previous Adventuring Phase."

Is there text elsewhere that indicates that if a place is not Home or a Sanctuary, characters may only spend the FP there if they visited it during the most recent Adventuring phase? If not, do other interpret or play it that way? As I said, it's an interesting idea--and gives more value to Sanctuaries--I'm just wondering what others think.

[Random221B]

It's the common-sense interpretation. I don't think the writers were being quite that careful with their terminology.

See, to me, the common sense interpretation is that Home means Home. It clearly means Home specifically, for the Raise Standard of Living Undertaking. But that interpretation makes sense for the Heal Corruption Undertaking, as well. It seems perfectly reasonable that you can only reduce the Shadow's influence over you when you spend time in a place where you feel safe, comfortable, welcomed, at ease, etc. Which would logically be either a Sanctuary or your home...not just anyplace you've ever visited. I hadn't really looked at it that way until this discussion (so thank you for that ), but now it makes sense to me that Heal Corruption *could* actually be limited only to FPs spent in Sanctuaries or specifically at Home.

[Stormcrow]

You don't think parties can Heal Corruption in Rivendell or Lothlorien?

[Majestic]

At least for me, I've gone more with what feels right, rather than trying to parse the specific details of the issue. My players have set up The Easterly Inn as a Sanctuary, and they typically spend their Fellowship Phases in places like that or in places where they are now hailed as heroes, like Rhosgobel.

But even though my players haven't taken the time to declare Rhosgobel a Sanctuary, and even if it's not (technically) the Home of any of the PCs (one has a homestead in Woodmen-town), the fact that the PCs have done so much for the Free Peoples and are hailed there as brave and noble adventurers means they could Heal Corruption there, if they chose to.

Note that they wouldn't have been able to do that early on in their adventuring careers, when they were hardly known and when they would move into a new community and be greeted with stares as queer and odd folk. But the ongoing narrative has meant that the Woodmen now all know who they are, and it's become a very safe place for them to winter at, when they choose to. Often one (or more) of the other PCs might return to their homelands (so the Mirkwood Elves might return to the Woodland Realm), but I don't try to figure out any specific numbers (like "Well, only two of you can stay here, and the rest of you can't"); I simply go with what makes narrative sense.

That's how I do it, anyway.

[Glorelendil]

You don't think parties can Heal Corruption in Rivendell or Lothlorien?

Not if you're not welcome there.

I've always interpreted the rules to mean that a "Sanctuary" is simply "a place where you are welcome to hang out without having business there". Maybe RAW doesn't support that, but it makes sense in the context of other rules.

So, yeah, if you go someplace that isn't Home or a Sanctuary you can't Heal Corruption.

EDIT: Majestic posted first, and I agree with his house rule. Some Sanctuaries should be such because of the Fellowship's deeds. No undertaking necessary.

Speaking of which, shouldn't burying a fallen comrade be an undertaking? "Undertaking: Undertaking"

[Random221B]

Not if you're not welcome there.

I've always interpreted the rules to mean that a "Sanctuary" is simply "a place where you are welcome to hang out without having business there". Maybe RAW doesn't support that, but it makes sense in the context of other rules.

So, yeah, if you go someplace that isn't Home or a Sanctuary you can't Heal Corruption.

This makes perfect sense. I am now coming to the opinion that spending a Fellowship Phase anywhere other than Home or a Sanctuary needs to be judged on a case by case basis. If you finish an Adventuring Phase in Rivendell or Lorien, for example, because you were brought there, or some important quest led you there, and it's your first time visiting...then yes, you would probably be welcomed to spend your next FP there, and could possibly/probably be able to Heal Corruption. If you just decide to drop by for every Fellowship Phase, or you keep ending up there at the end of Adventuring Phases, without making them Sanctuaries...then yeah, you're probably starting to wear out your welcome, and would not feel as welcomed or comfortable there, and be unable to choose that Undertaking. I'm starting to see Open Sanctuary partly as "putting in the effort to repay the kindness of your hosts, so that you don't wear out your welcome dropping by there all the time."

On the other hand, if an Adventuring Phase sees you doing something good for the Beornings, and you decided you want to spend the FP at the homestead of a Beorning family you met during the Adventure...sure, they'll probably let you stay, since you helped their people out, but they still barely know you, so you probably wouldn't be comfortable and warmly welcomed enough to allow Heal Corruption.

I think I'm going to go with the idea that you can only spend an FP at someplace other than Home or a Sanctuary, if you visited that location during the immediately preceding Adventuring Phase, and that the more times you spend an FP somewhere that isn't Home, *without* making it a Sanctuary, the more you start to wear out your welcome, as it means you are taking and not giving back. (Exceptions to be made, of course, for good narrative reasons, like Majestic's players with Rhosgobel.)

Speaking of which, shouldn't burying a fallen comrade be an undertaking? "Undertaking: Undertaking"

So...then your action during the FP would be "Undertake Undertaking: Undertaking"?