Fourth Age Familiar Faces

[michael.harrel]

I'm trying to compile a list of known/named characters who would still be around for players to meet circa Fourth Age 220 . Here's what I've got so far:

Named Allies:

• Radagast the Brown
• Tom Bombadil
• Goldberry
• Ents
  • Fangorn "Treebeard"
  • Finglas "Leaflock"
  • Fladriff "Skinbark"
  • Bregalad "Quickbeam"
  • Fimbrithel (Entwife) (?)
• Elves*
  • Haldir (?)
  • Mithrellas (?)
  • Maglor (Second son of Feanor)** (?)

Named Antagonists:

• Old Man Willow
• The Mouth of Sauron (?)***

Am I missing anyone?

* Tolkien mentions that when Celeborn left Middle-earth "with him went the last living memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth." Since this is written in the Appendices of the Lord of the Rings, and the Red Book was compiled in IV 172, this gives us a hard date for which all "living memories" of the Elder Days have left Middle-earth. In my game, I interpret this as meaning that only Silvan elves remain in Middle-earth; all of the Sindar and Noldor leave pretty soon after the War of the Ring.
** Maglor is the one exception to my "only Silvan Elves" rule -- his fate is unknown, save that after throwing the Silmaril in the sea he wandered the shores of the world, lamenting, and never returned to his people. It's a long shot, but he could feasibly still be around somewhere.
*** Realistically, the Mouth of Sauron probably died at the end of the War of the Ring. But, since we never actually hear what happened to him, so we can conjecture (however wildly) that he survived. Would he live for another two centuries, though? Perhaps if sorcery is involved?

[ADDENDUM: I suppose Findegil, the King's Writer who compiled the Red Book in IV172, could very well still be alive 48 years later in IV 220.]

[Otaku-sempai]

The problem with Radagast is that we are told that he, like the Blue Wizards, disappeared from the history of Middle-earth. If you want to stay true to Tolkien's legendarium then I'm not sure what you could do with Radagast in the Fourth Age.

[Glorelendil]

I agree it's tempting to have the ent-wives reappear, but I think it's "better Tolkien" to accept that the Brown Lands include the former Entwives gardens, and the gardeners themselves all perished.

[michael.harrel]

Otaku-sempai, I've just been over the relevant sections of the Return of the King, The Silmarillion, The Unfinished Tales and The Peoples of Middle-earth, and while there are several references to Radagast failing in his mission (and a conjecture that perhaps he *didn't* fail after all), I haven't seen anything to absolutely preclude the possibility that he remained forever out of sight after LotR. It's entirely possible that you have a reference I don't, though!

But in any case, even if Radagast does fade from Middle-earth history post-War of the Ring, there's no reason he couldn't appear for a cameo, or some small role in an adventure or campaign.

And if we assume that the Red Book of Westmarch story is true, then doesn't most of Tolkien's knowledge of the Third and Fourth Age end with IV 172, with perhaps a few incomplete scraps accounting for bits like The New Shadow? Radagast could have resurfaced after that date, with (sadly) no surviving record of it for Tolkien to translate.

Glorelindel, I don't know, I think there's enough ambiguity and hope given in LotR that the door is, at least, left open for some of the Ent-wives to survive. I agree that your interpretation is the most likely (Tolkien himself said he thought it was the most likely explanation), but I think it's something each Loremaster may decide for their own game.

[Glorelendil]

Glorelindel, I don't know, I think there's enough ambiguity and hope given in LotR that the door is, at least, left open for some of the Ent-wives to survive. I agree that your interpretation is the most likely (Tolkien himself said he thought it was the most likely explanation), but I think it's something each Loremaster may decide for their own game.

I don't mean that it's canon, I mean that the story of Middle-Earth is about loss and coping with sadness. Not about surprise happy endings. The Silmarils are gone. Luthien is gone. Gondolin, Nargothrond, Numenor...gone. Lindon wiped out. Palantiri...lost or corrupted.

Even Frodo and Sam and Bilbo...gone.

[thorr-kan]

Otaku-sempai, I've just been over the relevant sections of the Return of the King, The Silmarillion, The Unfinished Tales and The Peoples of Middle-earth, and while there are several references to Radagast failing in his mission (and a conjecture that perhaps he *didn't* fail after all), I haven't seen anything to absolutely preclude the possibility that he remained forever out of sight after LotR. It's entirely possible that you have a reference I don't, though!

The references is something about scouts from Rivendell being unable to find Radagast. His abode was abandoned and being reclaimed by Mirkwood. Darned if I can find it now, though.

I *believe* that date range was around when Elrond was assembling the council that dispatched the Fellowship to Mordor.

[Glorelendil]

His adobe was abandoned and being reclaimed by Mirkwood.

OMG...that explains so much about Radagast.

[michael.harrel]

Yes; from The Fellowship of the Ring:

Many [of Elrond's scouts] had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair.

A bit earlier, Gandalf also references the fact that Radagast no longer lives at Rhosgobel:

"I turned then east and north and journeyed along the Greenway; and not far from Bree I came upon a traveller sitting on a bank beside the road with his grazing horse beside him. It was Radagast the Brown, who at one time dwelt at Rhosgobel, near the borders of Mirkwood. He is one of my order, but I had not seen him for many a year."

So certainly Radagast is no longer in the same leadership role among the Woodsmen that we see him in during The One Ring's default period. (I have the Woodsmen and Beornings intermingling into a single people as a result). But there's nothing here that says he's gone from NW Middle-earth for good, or that would prevent him from taking a more active role in events later in the Fourth Age.

[Glorelendil]

Is there anything in canon about Radagast ever being a leader among the Woodmen, or is that Francesco's (excellent) invention?

[Artaxastra]

We know Radagast is gone. But I don't think we know what happened to him. He may have gone into the East, as certainly there are people there who need his aid. He may be dead. I think as long as he's not doing something that obviously contradicts canon, like hanging out in Rivendell, he could be wherever the loremaster needed him to be.

One thing I bear in mind about the Red Book and the chronicles compiled in Gondor in the Fourth Age is that Tolkien is imitating the style of original historical sources from the early medieval and classical period, and that those sources in real life are full of errors, contradictions, and prejudices of the author. They're not definitive. While valuable, Plutarch is not the last or only word on Caesar, nor Arrian the last or only word on Alexander, and certainly Gildas isn't the last word on the Matter of Britain! So I don't think the "sources" that Tolkien creates are intended to be any more definitive on the Eldar or Aragorn. Like the historical documents he was so familiar with, and whose style he adopted for these fictitious found documents, I think he intended the reader to take them with a grain of salt. A big grain!