Viglundings

[Aeglosdir]

Did I miss something in TOR that says the Viglundings are of Dalish origin? I thought they were of the Anduin Vales.

The name?

Thing is, it seems quite clear that the name was intended to be Old Norse. What does that imply re the linguistic situation in TOR? But, you would like to reverse their decision simply based on your personal aesthetics that names should sound English??

Tolkien himself was often influenced by the resonance of certain words to the modern English ear (and not above puns).

Tolkien wasn't cheating in linguistics, though.

Eorf, sounds like Oaf. Eh, so-so.

Don't use a reconstructed OE reflex of the word, then.

[Edit: You know, in actual OE, eorf would sound nothing like "oaf". Also, Eorl didn't sound like "owl". You can get an idea of the OE pronunciation (both the eo diphthong and the r) here:
http://people.umass.edu/sharris/in/gram ... ation.html (click "eorþan").]

You are of course free to use whatever English-sounding names you like in your game... I just didn't see why you would want to preface your opinion with a criticism of TOR in this particular case.

[Dedicemancometh]

I just didn't see why you would want to preface your opinion with a criticism of TOR in this particular case.

Oh,... to help make them better! (I also chided Turbine for using modified Finnish for their Forochel area.)

[Glorelendil]

You obviously both know a lot about this stuff. Respecting each other as kindred spirits rather than trying to establish supremacy would be appreciated by the rest of us. Pedantry pretty much never accomplishes its purpose.

Regardless of provenance, I agree with Dedi that the name "Viglund" simply feels out of place, and the names he suggested were, for me at least, better sounding. More Tolkieny, for the context.

Viglund sounds appropriately sinister, but more exotic than it should. In my own lay opinion.

[Halbarad]

I don't think that there is any reason to doubt that Viglund and his folk might be of Dalish stock. The fact that they have some kinship to the cottars of the Western Upper Vales, who are in turn akin to Beorn's folk does not make them the same folk.
I believe there is a quote(which escapes me at present) from LotR canon that claims all the Northmen to be related. IIRC it may even specifically link the Rohirrim to the Beornings to the Dalefolk.

At the end of The Hobbit, it clearly indicates that exiles returned to Dale from the west. These folk must have come from the Anduin Vales. The only other human settlement to the west is in Eriador. I don't think that the quote was referring to Breefolk as part of the Dalish Diaspora.

Perhaps this Viglund was a scion of Dale who was simply unwilling to return there and surrender his authority to the new King?

[Aeglosdir]

I don't think that there is any reason to doubt that Viglund and his folk might be of Dalish stock.

Agreed. I wouldn't want to assume that someone lifted the name Viglund out of Norse sagas without thinking. I'd assume that the name was considered to fit linguistically. Actually, assuming the opposite seems a bit arrogant to me.

I would expect the language of Dale to have been spoken in Lake-town as well as in the surrounding area. So that a name like Viglund would signal that this guy is from up north somewhere, not necessarily from Dale itself, but maybe so.

[Elmoth]

I might be flouting tolkien-lore here (never checked it) but I always saw beornings and viglunds as being the one and the same people, just taking divergent paths of development. And woodmen as well. All are peoples of the same area witht he same original racial stock. They just happen to klive by the north of the river, south of the river and surrounding wildland or up where the area is just awful, and so their cultures and worldviews deviate slightly one from the other. Beornings have a particular leader that influences their political and cultural position, bu this is a very recent event, in fact. For what I know, The viglund leader and Beorn might be cousins.

Cheers,
Xavi

[Halbarad]

@Elmoth

You should have a look at Other Minds issue 14.

It contains an article on the demographics of Rhovanion from early third age to 3015.

Virtually any quote from the canon that could be used for the purpose of extrapolating a believable set of cultures is in that article. Tolwen was very thorough and I may have had some little input as well.