New Loremaster, Combat issues.

[zedturtle]

Sorry if I seemed to be lecturing. It was mostly an excuse for me to post my second line in a serious discussion.

[Random221B]

Sorry if I seemed to be lecturing. It was mostly an excuse for me to post my second line in a serious discussion.

Nope, didn't sound lecturing at all. No worries. I'm enjoying the discussion. My own apologies if I seem to be repeating myself more than I'm adding anything new to the conversation.

[Otaku-sempai]

I suppose that, instead of 'Woodmen', one could say 'Wood-folk'. However, another person might think that you are referring to the Ents.

[Stormcrow]

When a female "woodman" wants to identify herself, she can say she is "of the Woodmen."

[Random221B]

When a female "woodman" wants to identify herself, she can say she is "of the Woodmen."

Yes, I agree. As I said above "one of the Woodmen" (or as you say, just "of the Woodmen") sounds/works better than saying she is either "a Woodman" or "a Woodwoman." I didn't specifically plan/decide to start using "of/one of the Woodmen folk," it just came out of my mouth the first time, and I liked the sound of it, so I kept using it. "of the Woodmen" works...I just personally decided I liked the sound/feel of "Woodmen folk" better.

[Majestic]

I've had two female Woodmen PCs, one played by a female and another by a male. Though it sounds a bit awkward, I've described them as a "Woodwoman of Wilderland".

No worries. Your thanks almost makes up for the fact that you called Glorelendil a celebrity and not me.

Glorelendil was already having trouble getting his head through the door...

* When one plays online, one can never be sure. The preponderance of evidence is that I'm not a super-evolved AI, but you never know...

I don't know. You're going to have to get something wrong, rules-wise, one of these days. 99.994% accuracy could be a human, but it's extremely suspect.

[mirdanis]

Zed, you are the best kind of celebrity - the approachable kind, with a sense of humor! Although if you're also an extremely advanced AI...should we start calling you Data?

Re: gendered labels. I also use Look-Out and Hunter rather than their gendered equivalents, and I have also struggled to come up with a gender-inclusive term for 'Woodmen'. I agree, 'Woodwoman' is awkward. I thought of using "of the Woodland Realm", but the Elves took that one for themselves. The compromise I've come up with is referring to them in print, at least, as the Wood-Men, using Tolkien's capitalized "Men" to mean humans. In my game, I try to present examples of women as well as men in positions of authority and respect; two of the seven Council members of Woodland Hall are women, the chief healer and the sister of the previous bearer of Wolfbiter, an accomplished shieldmaiden in her own right. I also have a woman playing a female Dwarf who presents as male to non-Dwarves. The player assumed at first that females were undervalued in the Dwarven cultures of Middle-Earth, and that may have been the case as Tolkien envisioned it, but I choose to disagree. I think that the reason Dwarven women mostly don't leave their halls by the Third Age is because they are so highly cherished - as lineage-holders and record-keepers, as well as for their wisdom, discernment and foresight.

I also appreciate C7 tremendously for avoiding stereotypes of female adventurers and images thereof. Just because we adore Professor Tolkien and his created world doesn't mean we have to adhere to his generation's unquestioned institutionalized sexism!

[Random221B]

I also appreciate C7 tremendously for avoiding stereotypes of female adventurers and images thereof. Just because we adore Professor Tolkien and his created world doesn't mean we have to adhere to his generation's unquestioned institutionalized sexism!

Indeed!

I like your thoughts on Dwarven women, and what their roles are in Dwarven society.

[Robin Smallburrow]

mirdanis

You are in fact spot on with your reasoning as to why dwarven women are hardly ever found 'outside' - IIRC in one of the History of Middle Earth books, Tolkien mentions this very reason - their scarcity meant that they were protected and cherished by their men-folk, so they were rarely allowed to leave. Picture the scene of a dwarven father with a rebellious daughter telling him she was 'going, no matter what' (actually I think this is what happened with Dis, but she was only able to travel I think because she had an 'escort')

Robin S.

[Otaku-sempai]

mirdanis

You are in fact spot on with your reasoning as to why dwarven women are hardly ever found 'outside' - IIRC in one of the History of Middle Earth books, Tolkien mentions this very reason - their scarcity meant that they were protected and cherished by their men-folk, so they were rarely allowed to leave. Picture the scene of a dwarven father with a rebellious daughter telling him she was 'going, no matter what' (actually I think this is what happened with Dis, but she was only able to travel I think because she had an 'escort')

Robin S.

Dís, in her early years, wouldn't have had much say in the matter. She was forced to flee Erebor with her kin in her tenth year and was probably dwelling in Dunland until after the War of the Dwarves and Orcs. Dís would still have been considered to be quite young when her father brought his followers to the Ered Luin in TA 2802. It seems likely that she might have remained in Thráin's (later Thorin's) Halls in the Blue Mountains until after 2941 when Durin's Folk in the Blue Mountains could return to Erebor.

I have speculated that Dís might have returned to the Blue Mountains if she found remaining in Erebor unbearable; perhaps maintaining the Halls of Thorin as an embassy for the Folk of Durin in the western lands. If this was the case then she might have developed quite an independent streak in those later years.