New Loremaster, Combat issues.

[Arinbor]

Hey guys, just looking for some tips as a Loremaster.
My party sits in Defensive Stance as much as they can, and I find it hard to hit them most of the time. Im just not sure if im meant to throw more enemies at them, or harder ones. The four of them walk through 5-6 Orcs easily and even killed a cave troll.
Am I right in that the TN to hit PCs is their stance value (6,9,12) plus their parry (basic wits, shield)?
Cheers for any input.

[Ecorce]

Hello Arinbor,

Could you tell us about your player-characters ? Which culture ? How big is their parry attribute ?
Also... do you use the special abilities of the Orcs (using their hate attribute) ?

I didn't played a lot, but as a Loremaster, I've found that the foes' abilities could be very powerful. I suppose the PC can learn how to deal with them, but it's a good way to create difficulty and force them to change their strategy.

[Arinbor]

Thanks for the Reply. There is a Noldor with 7 parry, and two bardlings. One has 3 parry and the other gets a crazy 8 parry with the swordmaster virtue.
I think my problem is I need to be meaner and throw a lot more enemies at them, or harder ones. Its just been little mordor orcs and goblins for now

[Elmoth]

Those are high as parry attributes, but not THAT high. High is 9+. Anything below that something that can be hit. Maybe you are not using the special abilities of the enemies as suggested? or maybe you are not using enough enemies? I would guess the later.

Example for the elf in Defensive mode. 7+12 = TN19 to be hit.
1) Enemies throw 2D + the D12. They hit on a Sauron with an average roll of 7 in the 2D6. That is 8% of the time.
2) With 3D in attack they will hit him on a 9,10 or Sauron in the D12, so 25% of the time they will score a hit against the elf.
So enemies with 2D in their attack will have a hard time hitting a defensive elf, while enemies that throw 3D in attack are quite more dangerous for the pointy eared bastard and his companions.

The important thing here is that your players should not be hitting much either since they are in Defensive mode, so the combat will drag and means that they can be hit by pure statistics: more rolls to attack from their enemies since they are not killing them either.


Cheers,
Xavi

[Stormcrow]

What's your goal when introducing combat? Is the fight to be the central feature of the game, or is it something the players want to get through quickly and safely so they can get on with other things?

If combat is not central to your game, then the players probably have the right idea: minimize losses and let the enemy expend its resources against you. The One Ring recommends staging one combat every two sessions.

If it is central, then you need to introduce some elements that encourage players to take more risks. They'll be perfectly happy to hunker down for a slug-fest if they have no reason to risk their necks. The best way to encourage more activity by the players is to give the adversaries useful tactics. Don't just have them stand there going through the motions; let them take advantage of terrain and any weaknesses the characters may have.

[zedturtle]

Also, bear in mind that the rules for favoured skills for Adversaries changes the odds as well. A Black Uruk is rolling Feat Die + 2d6 + 5 for his sword. That means he needs 7 or better on the Feat Die for the average result of 7 on the skill dice in order to hit TN 19. With Horrible Strength he can do 10-20 points of damage on each hit and it takes a TN 19 to hit him as well. So he should be a scary opponent for any newer hero.

[Glorelendil]

1. How advanced are the characters? If they're sitting in Defensive stance the whole time the TN to hit the orcs & trolls is also 12 + Parry, and since new characters usually can't start with higher than 3 weapon skill that gives them a decent but by no means guaranteed chance to hit.

2. As those above said, are you remembering to use the adversaries' special abilities and favoured weapons/armour?

3. For the Cave Troll, did you use Great Size? You can't kill them without at least one wound, and with 3d armour that means they roll 3d + 7 on their Protection rolls.

[tomfish]

One thing I completely forgot when I was a new Loremaster which made the initial combats look easy for the players : do not forget do add the Attribute level of the creature to the attack roll when it uses its favored weapons. This is easy to overlook, but it makes quite a difference ! Also, use all of the enemies capabilities, some of them can be very powerful.

[Arinbor]

Thanks for all the quick replies guys. Im not making combat a central part of the campaign, but have been experimenting a lot with it to get a feel for the system. I do think that my problem is not enough enemies, and not enough scary ones.
Ill implement everything ive learned here and see how I go.
Cheers again!

[aramis]

Hey guys, just looking for some tips as a Loremaster.
My party sits in Defensive Stance as much as they can, and I find it hard to hit them most of the time. Im just not sure if im meant to throw more enemies at them, or harder ones. The four of them walk through 5-6 Orcs easily and even killed a cave troll.
Am I right in that the TN to hit PCs is their stance value (6,9,12) plus their parry (basic wits, shield)?
Cheers for any input.

If they're fighting defensively, yes, it should be bloody hard to hit them. But remember also: They also have to hit that same TN to hit the bad guys.

Several enemy types have abilities that are useful against PC's in any stance, too.

If I had players who ALL were in either defensive or rearward in a given turn, I'd give the enemy the initiative instead, but that's into houserule territory.

Also, remember: in defensive stance RAW, they can only attack, escape, or Protect Companion. They cannot Awe, Rally, nor fire bows.

Counting the additional maneuvers many add (I use several - marked with asterisks - it adds a bit of the cinematic LOTR feel)...
Forward: Melee Attack, Awe, Shield Bash* (Attack adding shield to Attack roll and damage, but not to Parry), Escape, Retrieve Weapon
Open: Melee Attack, Rally, Melee Shot* (To Hit TN 12+Parry. TN to be hit still 9+Parry), Tactical Acumen (Battle Roll to gain a bonus die to give to someone else - never self), Escape, Retrieve Weapon
Defensive: Melee Attack, Protect Companion, Evasive Action* (No offense, but add +2 per SL to parry - yours or an ally's), Escape, Retrieve Weapon
Rearward: Ranged Attack, Prepare Shot, Volley* (SL allies get hit for base damage), Escape, Retrieve Weapon

Also, it's perfectly fine to make some locations require they be in certain other stances. Several such situations are in published adventures.