Horse-lords of Rohan discussion

[Francesco]

For instance, the name Léothere appears as Tolkien would have written it, with the diphthong éo having an accent on the first letter. But Beówyrt has an accent on the second letter, which is not Tolkien's convention.

Béowyrt is indeed a recorded Old English word for a type of plant (bēo +‎ wyrt) and is spelled incorrectly in HLoR. Please let us know if you spot other such inconsistencies!

Many thanks,

Francesco

[aramis]

As for horses... no rules for Dwarven War Ponies... and no entry on the horseflesh table for ponies proper, either. Nor donkeys nor mules. Jim will be sore disappointed that Birok's mighty axe will still have to be wielded from on foot...

Also (unless I've overlooked it) I see no notes on Elven-bred horses.

No, but now that we have core horse(wo)manship rules, other supplements can easily insert new types of mounts. Sort of like now that we have rules for magic items from Rivendell, new adventures/supplements can include examples of such.

Unfortunately, Rivendell is the appropriate place for Elf-horses, but it's already out. Still, a book on the other two groups of elves in the core region (detailing more on Thranduil's domain in the Mirkwood, and then also detailing out the elves of Lorien) would be equally logical, and seems a likely enough product for down the road.

Oh, and menion is made in the back that goblin's wolf-mounts are equivalent to palfreys... would it have been so hard to add 3 lines (goblin wolves, dwarf ponies, Orc riding wargs) to the table?

Actually, given the great differences of the elf-steeds (which may not actually be horses in the same way that Gandalf isn't a man) would have needed at least a paragraph or two as well, and would be thematically out of place.

[Glorelendil]

given the great differences of the elf-steeds (which may not actually be horses in the same way that Gandalf isn't a man)

Whoah....where did that claim come from?

[zedturtle]

given the great differences of the elf-steeds (which may not actually be horses in the same way that Gandalf isn't a man)

Whoah....where did that claim come from?

They respond to voice commands and have internal guidance and inertia dampening systems, they're obviously from Google.

More seriously, I don't think there's enough in the source material to justify Elf-steeds as Companions (to blur our references again). I think it's more of a natural ability, an extension of Elves 'belonging' to Arda in ways that the mortal races do not.

[Otaku-sempai]

Actually, given the great differences of the elf-steeds (which may not actually be horses in the same way that Gandalf isn't a man) would have needed at least a paragraph or two as well, and would be thematically out of place.

Using the example of Glorfindel's steed Asfaloth, I would guess that elven-bred horses would rival (or nearly rival) the Mearas, but should still be considered to be natural animals -- not something like spirits in the form of beasts.

[Elfhelm]

Hey C7,

don't know if you are interested in getting typos pointed out, but I believe that the pregenerated Dunlending character Ralsora should have Frugal as standard of living, and not Martial as it is currently.

Great book by the way! Really looking forward to see how it works together with Oaths of the Riddermark.

[Andrew]

If anyone spots any typos etc, send me a PM or - better yet - an email to Andrew AT cubicle7 DOT co DOT uk

[Arthadan]

Dwarves in the Orocarni? You've made me curious, where are they named? I remeber a quote saying in the East Dwarves were the teachers of men (unlike the west, where Elves were the teachers), but nothing specific about the Orocarni or Rhûn.

HOME Vol. XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth (a volume I do not possess!) includes Tolkien's musings on the origins in Middle-earth of the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves.

- Longbeards (Durin's Folk): Gundabad
- Broadbeams and Firebeards: Ered Luin
- Ironfists and Stiffbeards: Northern Orocarni
- Blacklocks and Stonefoots: Southern Orocarni

Of course, I doubt that Cubicle 7 can make use of that as a source. But we do know about the Naugrim of Belegost and Nogrod in the Blue Mountains from the LotR Appendices.

Not exactly, here you are the quote:

In the Dwarvish traditions of the Third Age the names of the places where each of the Seven Ancestors had 'awakened' were remembered; but only two of them were known to Elves and Men of the West: the most westerly, the awakening place of the ancestors of the Firebeards and the Broadbeams; and that of the ancestor of the Longbeards, the eldest in making and awakening. The first had been in the north of the Ered Lindon, the great eastern wall of Beleriand, of which the Blue Mountains of the Second and later ages were the remnant; the second had been Mount Gundabad (in origin a Khuzdul name), which was therefore revered by the Dwarves, and its occupation in the Third Age by the Orks of Sauron was one of the chief reasons for their great hatred of the Orks. The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots. Though these four points were far sundered the Dwarves of different kindreds were in communication, and in the early ages often held assemblies of delegates at Mount Gundabad.

The Orocarni and Rhûn are not named. I was surprised because our very own Tolwen wrote an article about the possible location of the eastern awakening places, researching all the information we have about them (yep, he went to Elrond's library in Rivendell and everything). In his article (and to my knowledge) Tolkien never gave an exact location.

[Arthadan]

Actually, given the great differences of the elf-steeds (which may not actually be horses in the same way that Gandalf isn't a man) would have needed at least a paragraph or two as well, and would be thematically out of place.

Using the example of Glorfindel's steed Asfaloth, I would guess that elven-bred horses would rival (or nearly rival) the Mearas, but should still be considered to be natural animals -- not something like spirits in the form of beasts.

The Mearas are supposed to come from Nahar, Oromë's horse, and horses from Middle-earth. On the other hand, the Elven-steeds were brought from Valinor by Feänor (and probably come from Nahar as well). I think they should be considered "blessed" animals, same as the Great Eagles or Huan because their staying in the Undying Lands. Certainly they are not "spirits" (Maiar or otherwise), but the most noble version of an animal.

As a footnote, their (Elven) riders don't use saddle nor briddle (probably such an animal won't accept that), it's the own horse who cares about the rider. Same as Shadowfax, now that I think about it (and Felaróf, if my memory serves me well). Esentially, there should be little difference between a pure-blooded Mearh and an Elven steed.

[Otaku-sempai]

...here you are the quote:

In the Dwarvish traditions of the Third Age the names of the places where each of the Seven Ancestors had 'awakened' were remembered; but only two of them were known to Elves and Men of the West: the most westerly, the awakening place of the ancestors of the Firebeards and the Broadbeams; and that of the ancestor of the Longbeards, the eldest in making and awakening. The first had been in the north of the Ered Lindon, the great eastern wall of Beleriand, of which the Blue Mountains of the Second and later ages were the remnant; the second had been Mount Gundabad (in origin a Khuzdul name), which was therefore revered by the Dwarves, and its occupation in the Third Age by the Orks of Sauron was one of the chief reasons for their great hatred of the Orks. The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots. Though these four points were far sundered the Dwarves of different kindreds were in communication, and in the early ages often held assemblies of delegates at Mount Gundabad.

The Orocarni and Rhûn are not named. I was surprised because our very own Tolwen wrote an article about the possible location of the eastern awakening places, researching all the information we have about them (yep, he went to Elrond's library in Rivendell and everything). In his article (and to my knowledge) Tolkien never gave an exact location.

Thanks for the quote! Rhûn is just another name for the East. And the Orocarni seems to be the only major mountain range in Middle-earth that is in the right place since it just doesn't seem likely that any of the Ancestors awoke in the Mountains of Mordor as they don't seem to be far enough east to fit the passage.