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bluejay wrote:Rich is absolutely correct. Page 151 of the new rulebook, bottom of the left column

"...any roll may be modified by a maximum of 1 bonus Success die."

This is explicitly in reference to preliminary rolls. Otherwise the +2 die bonus from songs (introduced in the Rivendell book) would not be possible. And that bonus can't even be divided.

So applying it to anything other that preliminary rolls is somewhat dubious.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

bluejay wrote:Rich is absolutely correct. Page 151 of the new rulebook, bottom of the left column

"...any roll may be modified by a maximum of 1 bonus Success die."

This is explicitly in reference to preliminary rolls. Otherwise the +2 die bonus from songs (introduced in the Rivendell book) would not be possible. And that bonus can't even be divided.

So applying it to anything other that preliminary rolls is somewhat dubious.

Ah. Just looked it up.

Rivendell, Page 24 wrote:During an Adventuring phase, the companions may choose to sing a song to reinforce their mutual bond of friendship and inspire themselves to pursue their goals with renewed strength of purpose. First, the companions choose a song to sing among those on their song list. Then, all companions may make a Song roll.
• If a hero succeeds in his roll, he is Inspired until the end of the session: an Inspired companion may ‘spend’ his inspiration to add 2 Success dice to any one roll.

Then I looked up the exact wording of the Bonus Roll for Encounter Advantage things.

TOR Core, Page 151 wrote:How to use bonus Success dice Heroes may spend their bonus Success dice to boost their
rolls during the ensuing endeavour. When a player is about to make a roll, he may add 1 bonus Success die to the roll. To add the die, he may spend 1 of his own bonus dice, or another player may spend it to give it to him.
...
During the same turn, a player may spend 1 or more of the dice in his reserve at any time (for his own roll or to help others), but any roll may be modified by a maximum of 1 bonus Success die.

Then again, it does refer to 'Bonus Success Dice' and the Rivendell dice are not referred to as such, while Horsetail helm's are.

Horse-Lords of Rohan, Page 147 wrote:...if your attack role is a Gandalf you receive a bonus Success die to spend on any of your future rolls, or to give to another companion.

Well, lets see what the Errata nets us, I guess!

Deadmanwalking wrote:So applying it to anything other that preliminary rolls is somewhat dubious.

I wouldn't say its dubious at all. It isn't explicit that the restriction in spending bonus success dice just relates to preliminary rolls because that place in the rules is the place that bonus success dice are introduced and defined. So, for me, the application/restriction that only one bonus dice can be used at a time applies to bonus dice in general rather than just bonus dice received as a preliminary roll. So, for me, the implication is that where bonus dice are applied then the restriction is also applied unless explicitly stated otherwise in any exception-based rule. The rule on Songs does this, explicitly stating "... add 2 Success dice to any one roll..." (and also not referring to them as bonus Success dice which is likely more of a critical point) whereas the rule in Horse Lords states "... receive a bonus Success die...". Just using a bit of common sense to the helm would seem to me that its implication is that it's used in the same way as preliminary roll bonus dice are used - if it wasn't then you'd have to record these separately rather than just add to your bonus battle dice which seems very counter intuitive and not really in keeping with what I know about the design principals of the game based on talking to Francesco and the guys.

It could do with a little more clarity though for those that are unsure and I've dropped Andrew an email for clarification to help out those querying it.

Rich H wrote:It could do with a little more clarity though for those that are unsure and I've dropped Andrew an email for clarification to help out those querying it.

Awesome, thanks Rich.

I'm in the "Only one bonus die" and "Inspiration Dice from Song are not Bonus Dice but Helm dice are"...

And when I asked, consensus was that the song dice also can't take you above 6 success dice.

Oh, I'm perfectly happy to treat Helm dice in the same way as bonus dice from preliminary rolls. That seems to be a perfectly fair way of handling it and quite possibly the intent.

I'm just not sure it's quite as clear-cut by the rules alone as others seem to feel it is.

Can anyone who worked on the book speak to where the Dunlending names were drawn from?

aramis wrote:I'm in the "Only one bonus die" and "Inspiration Dice from Song are not Bonus Dice but Helm dice are"...

And when I asked, consensus was that the song dice also can't take you above 6 success dice.

Pretty late on this, but just wanted to add that Andrew clarified exactly this: that song dice can't take you above 6 Success Dice.

I've been a bit like Treebeard here:(It takes a long time to read anything worthwhile etc...) and I've been leisurely reading HLoR.

BUT I just re-read the Rohan virtue Old Songs & Children's Tales. This is so good.

The default Song of all Rohirrim is '2', which means that if you have this as your starting virtue you can have a 1 in 12 chance of regaining a point of Hope on any of six different skills in each and every session. ( I know it says gain a point of Hope but I assume it means re-gain used Hope...)

I just think that this is so well placed and very in keeping with the use of songs etc in the Middle Earth world. Great job whoever came up with this one.

I have been very impressed with this supplement. Though I have been waiting for years to play someone from Gondor or Bree, this book makes me want to play a Rohirrim. Great work C7 team.