Greetings and a question...

[Ravenarchon]

Greetings TOR forum goers. I've been lurking around this board for years now (since the announcement of the game I think) and finally decided to start posting. I have some thoughts for a campaign I was hoping to get some feedback on when I get it more developed, but for now I'm trying to finish my collection of books (just got my copy of The Heart of the Wild today in the mail - awesome book by the way. Little disappointed by the implied nudity of the river maidens as I thought Middle Earth generally leaned towards hyper-modest and I'm a bit prudish like that, but that's a minor gripe and otherwise the book is fantastic and beautiful and already giving me ideas.)

In any case I had a question about the C7 store. I didn't see this addressed anywhere else on the forum and I looked back a couple of pages, but if this has been answered before I'm sorry to bother. My question is do the TOR books also come with a PDF downloads or not? The store doesn't mention them in their PDF + book bundle section, but I thought C7 was normally pretty good about giving out PDFs with dead tree copies, and they have that whole brick and mortar program going on... I'm trying to decide where to buy from for some extra copies of some books and ones I'm missing, and I really want to directly support C7 and their awesome product, but without the extra incentive of PDF backups it seems like other places (which I won't mention because this isn't an add) are cheaper for the same product... If they don't I may just get the PDF versions from DTRPG, but I'm hoping I just missed something.

Anyway thanks in advance for reading and for any answers.

[Mim]

Welcome to our conversations!

Yes, when you purchase their books you should receive an email that gives you a code to download the pdfs via RPGNow/DriveThru. I've never had a problem with it - the system works well.

[bfl]

Welcome.

You're not the only one who prefers modesty in the game's art.

[Stormcrow]

When Tom Bombadil rescues the hobbits from the barrow, he bids them discard the old rags they're wearing and run naked on the grass.

[Beleg]

Not directly related to your question but: What's wrong with naked people? Having an issue with chainmail bikinis and such sure (even if its a well known fact that all enemy's only attack the shiny bits) but there's nothing wrong with the human... or elven or dwarven or.. hobbiten? form. Personally I don't think Tolkien would have had an issue with that, so long as everybody dressed sensibly when they actually wore clothes

[Hermes Serpent]

Getting back to the main point of the original posting.

Yes, you do get a copy of the pdf when you buy from the C7 store.

The usual response from C7 is to check your spam/junk folder for an email ( I can't remember the usual title off-hand) but one from either C7 or RPGNow is possible I think). If you still can't find it then a polite email stating your order number will produce a response from Nick the Customer Service person responsible.

[Ravenarchon]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I've been waiting on getting the Lore Master's screen because I was unsure if I could get it through C7 with a PDF or if It would be better to get it somewhere else. I think now I'll get it through C7. I'm also considering getting a second core book set. It would be nice to get a PDF copy, another set of dice, and replacement books in case these fall apart.

As for the other issue of discussion, I understand and agree with the concept of "artistic nudity" (for the most part), and I'll admit the image in question - which is not even actual nudity, only implied - seems to be there to imply the beauty of the form, and not anything explicit. It still makes me uncomfortable, however, because it treads to closely to the RPG cliche of fan-service. Most PNP RPGs use fair amounts of sexualization, particularly in their depiction of women. In many cases fantasy creatures (such as dryads and nymphs) get a free pass to go even farther. Up till now, the TOR RPG has never given me cause to worry it might go in that direction, and I'm really hoping it's a one time thing with this creature (it lives in water, it's a shape-shifting fey, I can buy that clothes would be in some ways unbelievable). I'm worried, however, that it'll become a trend, like in the other RPGs, to depict fairies and fey all nude.

[Beleg]

I'm worried, however, that it'll become a trend, like in the other RPGs, to depict fairies and fey all nude.

I don't think you have anything to be worried about there. Jon Hodgson's art, in my opinion and the opinion of many others on the forums, is incredibly 'Tolkien' as well as beautiful. Beyond that, I don't actually know of any Tolkien creatures or races that could possibly be depicted that way anyway

[Jon Hodgson]

I'm worried, however, that it'll become a trend, like in the other RPGs, to depict fairies and fey all nude.

We don't do exploitative nudity or semi-nudity at c7.

Some questionable choices were made in the long distant past, so there are examples you could drag up for yesteryear, but in recent years we explicitly do not use sexualised imagery to sell books. We have a policy of "including everyone in the fun", and so on both Victoriana and Rocket Age I sent back sketches with revisions to include more active female characters. It's something we keep a close eye on, and do even more of as time goes by.

I'm really happy that TOR gets frequently cited as a good example of non-sexist rpg art, and you won't see that changing. We had a great panel discussion at Gen Con, which was suggested by both myself and Onyx Path supremo Rich Thomas, on sexism in fantasy art. It was a tremendous discussion, really well attended with a very thorough exchange of views, and I'm very keen to keep us in touch with that discussion.

The River Maidens are a strongly folkloric element that warranted the suggestion of nudity. Whilst clearly how it's interpreted is beyond our control I'm very happy that it is not an exploitative piece of art. (It's a piece by Ben Wootten, just for the record) We'll reserve the right to use that kind of pre-raphaelite/Romantic nudity where appropriate, but rest assured in The One Ring, as in our other games, it'll be extremely rare, and where used it will be done so with due care.

That reminds me of a piece about TOR art I posted on G+ for International Women's Day: https://plus.google.com/u/0/11128331549 ... ZVvb2WncHx

[Ravenarchon]

Thank-you for the reply Jon! Truth be told it was actually the art for this game (your art in particular) that got me so initially excited for it, and I used to troll your DA page a fair bit waiting for updates (which is also how I discovered and became obsessed with another game you do the art for run by a group of Serpent Kings ;D). Since first seeing it, I've tended to regard your art as "fantasy done right" without the blatant sexism or extreme styles that prevail in so many other games. It good to hear that this isn't just a coincidence, or a requirement of the license, but a commitment you and C7 have to this kind of realism. Knowing that, I think I can live with the occasional River Maiden.