Balancing the enemies

[ZioHal]

Hi to all,

after many weeks playing the adventures taken from TOR core or Tales from Wilderness, I want to create an encounter by myself.

So I ask to you all Players and Lore Masters this question:
How can I create an orch group strong enough to keep up with the players?

My party is compose by a Woodman Axe 3 dice and the hound, a Dwarf Axe 2 dice heavy armored, a Bardian bowmen with longbow 3 dice and special ability taken with valor, one Elf woth sword and bow 2 dice and ad hobbit with bow 2 dice and when shoot reroll d12

Many thanks for helping me!

Have a good day

[HorusZA]

I guess it depends what you mean by "balanced".
Does it mean "The Characters have a 50% chance of survival." or "50% of the character's resources (Endurance) will be consumed." or something simpler like "Not a walkover, and not a TPK either."

When I build encounters, I don't try to balance them. I use what seems like a reasonable opposition given the circumstances from a purely neutral game-world perspective. So if the encounter calls for a Orc scouting group, then 6-8 Orcs, armed with bows and light armour led by an experienced pathfinder seems about right irrespective of the composition of the group.

I believe that the world does not adapt itself to the group to provide a fair fight. It is what it is.
This not only ensures verisimilitude, but it also enhances the sense of danger and tension experienced by the players. Instead of "Sure we can take these guys on, the GM wouldn't have us encounter them otherwise." it becomes a case of "Uh, I don't know... these guys look pretty tough and seem to know how to handle themselves in a fight. That scarred one is probably quite a veteran..."
Also, it provides a real sense of getting better (in terms of fighting ability). Fights will become easier the more experienced a character becomes, which would (by definition) not be the case if every encounter was "balanced". I don't see why the opposition should get tougher just because the PC's are becoming more skilled.

YMMV of course, but I wouldn't over-think this whole balance thing as I believe it's a non-issue.

[Hermes Serpent]

There was a thread about this on the old forum. Someone (Beran???) worked out a system for giving each adversary a points value and comparing that to a 10 point hero (the basic starter hero with their 10 starting points allocated).

I can't remember who it was or I'd link to the thread.

[Mordagnir]

Agree completely with HorusZA. Encounters should serve the plot and contribute to the world's believability. TOR is a bit less forgiving than most other systems I've played in that a short run of bad luck can incapacitate the company.

If you want to play with resource scarcity, I think there's more fun to be had on the Hope/Shadow line although that may well be a matter of taste.

[ZioHal]

I am in perfect agreement with Horus ZA.
I have always supported this point of view in any role-playing game I mastered, since the days of AD&D, but also in WH and Savage Worlds.

My question was more a curiosity given me by adventure "Those who tarry no longer" where I wolud like clash the group and a band of orcs, fell to plunder the lands of Beornings. This evil creatures intercepted by the players, run near the limits of Mirkwood where fights begin.

I want use this scene as a prologue for ths adventure.

I wanted to know if there was a way to set the combat without the risk of halving the party.

Many thanks for your answers

[HorusZA]

My question was more a curiosity given me by adventure "Those who tarry no longer" where I wolud like clash the group and a band of orcs, fell to plunder the lands of Beornings. This evil creatures intercepted by the players, run near the limits of Mirkwood where fights begin.

I want use this scene as a prologue for ths adventure.

I wanted to know if there was a way to set the combat without the risk of halving the party.

Many thanks for your answers

I'd pick a good number of Orcs, say 8, and configure them in an interesting manner. Maybe 4 grunts equipped for hand-to-hand, 3 archers sitting in the back and one big leader. This allows you to show off various bits of the mechanics and should make for an interesting fight.
If the players are having too easy a time, have the Orcs receive some reinforcements. Maybe a warg-rider or two.
If the player's are getting owned, have a small group of Beornings or Wood Elves join the fray to help out. This might just be enough to break the Orc's morale so you don't have to run the combat through to the bitter end.

[Mim]

To piggyback onto HorusZA's response: you can tweak the numbers all you want, but there just isn't any substitute for some good ole fashioned tactics. Most games turn Orcs into sword fodder, & you want to have them behave at least reasonably logically in ToR.

Play them so they send out scouts or flankers on the march; have sentries posted when they rest (which should seem seldom enough as they display their almost superhuman or Shadow-driven strength); utilize false retreats, feints, etc, that lure unsuspecting heroes into ambushes; alternate ranged fire with closing to melee; shieldwalls or some type of defensive formations when so required (not to mention always taking advantage of the terrain); & so forth. In short, they should always, even the lesser breeds, challenge your heroes. God help your champions of the West when they run into some Black Uruks...

[Corvo]

Since we all agree with HorusZA point , I will share another consideration.

Think from an orc ( ) point of view:

1) do the orcs engage or not?
The heroes are 4-5 (4 + dog + kid with bow). If the orcs are even or inferior number, they avoid any confrontation imo.
They are vile creatures, fond of abusing weaker opponents. And they are fairly “professional” raiders: they are not here to die gloriously, they want to plunder and inflict pain. Bullies, if you want.

So, if the LM want a battle, the orcs should feel fairly confident they will win. The heroes are here to show they are wrong! 7-8 orcs can attack them, 10 will surely do.

2) what's their mission here? What is their chieftain purpose?
-Stealthy recon? 4-5 orcs are ok. You cannot trust 1-2 orcs doing such mission (not brave enough), more than 5 will make too much fuss (well, that's the way I imagine them). They avoid any serious fight.
-Plunder isolated homestead? 8-12 orcs, and up to 30. A smaller number risk being pinned in the open by some horsemen with bows. Being a fairly unruly bunch, the bigger the band the greater the chances some group will split away (infighting, or greed), so a 20 band can split 12-8, for example.

3) how far away from safety?
Orcish raiders on foot are always in danger of being pursued by mounted men.
Groups of 5-10 orcs should keep near the mountains or the woods, where they can escape pursuit. Bigger groups can be numerous enough to deter a bunch of horsemen: after all this is the Anduin valley, not the Riddermark, not many horse warriors here. See point 2 about bigger bands.
Warg riders, on the other hand, are different. Their superior mobility is their best asset. A group of 6-10, armed with bows, can range far and wide, looking for easy prey and avoiding any serious opponents. A bigger band, say 15 or 20, are deadly, because overwhelmed heroes on foot cannot outrun them (TPK risk, unless they got defensible position).

[ZioHal]

Great ideas! Many thanks to all!

Yesterday evening we have our game.

The group of orcs was composed as follows:
3 Archers, 7 orc soldier and a Little Boss

Since they were escaped from a bigger confrontation with the Beornings I imagined that their only goal is to reach the Gray Mountains in the north, except in bringing their loot.
They are orcs, never feel tired, traveling at night without pains to hide their tracks.

The party begin the hunt and I asked the Explorerer (Bardian) and the Hunter (Woodman) to roll their skill. For the other members I asked a Travel roll

I use an house rule that when they roll Travel skills, they roll dice behind my LM screen and I wrote down the results and then when needed, I describe to the player that his character feels fatigue accumulate or otherwise travel without problems. So based on my description they can understand if spend hope or not.

So the Hobbit roll "EYE" for his travel. Then I roll for characters that must solve the problem. Hunter win.
So given that the negative event happened, I have chosen as an interlude that the orcs have occurred near the den of a big spider hunter, described in the manual "the heart of the wilds" and the characters, following in the footsteps of the orcs are finished also the lair of the spider thath prepares an ambush.

They kills the big spider without problems then the orc orcs were no longer far away and with nightfall again could exploit their advantage of shadow creatures.

So the characters decide to force the march and precede the orcs, using paths known to them thanks to the elf and find a place to ambush.

The battle lasted a little over two rounds. I hurt only the dwarf in a serious way, the other only a few scratches. But it was nice how they have striven to bring in the fact that the spider for them was not a problem and thanks to explorer who rolled Ganbdalf Rune, I let him precede the orcs.

An exciting start which allowed me to introduce the adventure of Lady Irime

What do you think of this game?

[Corvo]

The pursuit feel pretty dynamic to me, there was unexpected dangers, and the players got to made meaningful choices (forced march, ambush, etc).

Looks great to me