Your Revelation episodes (and suggestions for Celduin)

[Dunkelbrink]

I've been using the "Eye of Mordor" rules from Rivendell for a while now (started in 2951 with the declaration of Sauron) and I like the mechanic, but still trying to get the hang of it. So far the Hunt has only triggered once, but right now we're playing through Crossings of Celduin and the Company is just one point away from a revelation while in Celduin, trying to come up with a strategy for the coming battle.

What would be a good Revelation episode? Thinking of maybe having the the Master of Celduin falling to despair even though they convinced him before, running around and proclaiming doom and making people flee while the company prepares? Or a sinister fog rising from the river?

Have you had any good Revelations? How hard do you press the company when it occurs, and how have they reacted? Would be interesting to hear how the mechanic has been handled in your games!

Cheers
Magnus

[Corvo]

Hi Dunkelbrink!

Some of my past Revelation episodes had been terrible storms during a travel through Mirkwood (Out of the Fryin Pan: +4 to all Fatigue rolls). Being them in the Mountains of Mirkwood it was pretty terrible

Other times the Revelation came under the guise of intelligent enemies that were hunting specifically for them -they knew their names!- (Reckless Hate: the enemy gains the ability Hatred).
I used once a Hound of Sauron (with a cohort of wargs) and once a Secret Shadow (again, with a flight of Great Bats).

More simple ones had been ambushes (Guided by Sinister Purpose). Once had been a quartet of Great Spiders, another time a band of three Trolls.

I'm still waiting for a good chance to pull a Làthspell on them

At the Celduin a thick fog can be a good Revelation, if the opponent gains a serious advantage from it.
I think the Master of the Celduin is already non-friendly, so having him succumb to despair can be a bit weak, if we take Lies and Threats as a guideline
Maybe someone from the village strikes a deal with the enemy and betray the Heroes? This can be fatal, given the battle they are about to fight

[Falenthal]

I'm very interested in knowing how people apply the Revelation episodes.

I like the idea and concept of the Eye of Sauron a lot, but I can't grasp exactly how to make the Revelation episodes interesting. While I see them very similar to a Hazard during a Journey (a mechanical result that forces you, the LM, to more or less improvise a situation that is a challenge to the players, and was not a core part of the adventure), I also see them as opposite: a Hazard is a mechanic whose goal is to add flavour and tension where there was nothing (simplified, just rolling dice to calculate your Travel Fatigue and the LM describing landscapes).
But a Revelation episode "forces" the LM to add tension and difficulty to a situation that was already planned and balanced to be a challenge for the characters.

If, for example, a character is climbing the Dwimmerhorn from ToW. The difficulties are already calculated so that it is a difficult challenge. If a Revelation episode occurs, easily the LM can tell how suddenly the clouds erupt in a stormy rain and the side of the cliff becomes wet and slippery. It is as if the weather didn't want you to know what's up there. All Athletics' tests will be one grade more difficult (TN+2).
Ok, I can do that. But does it really add more tension to the scene? I probably had already thought about how tense this scene should be and, therefore, the TNs for the climb to the Dwimmerhorn were high enough.
With this Revelation episode the scene is not more tense. It is impossible. And players won't try something impossible. In fact, maybe my adventure needed someone to climb that cliff, even with the use of Hope points, Mountaneer traits, etc. Now, with Revelation, I've lost a climatic moment from my adventure and am even forced to improvise what else the players can do, now that no one dares to climb the slippery mountainside.

And resources like adding Hate points to enemies, or making an Encounter more difficult than I already had carefully considered, do seem more like a trouble to me as LM than a source of adventure and challenge to the players.

What's your experience with the Eye of Sauron and Revelation episodes?

[Aashdallar]

I think the idea is for something to happen that would be too terrible to occur... in the sense that nothing could have go worse than that. Much darker than a Hazard episode. Something that makes your players feel that all hope is lost.

Examples would be to add a more terrible enemy, instead OR AFTER the enemy you planned for. An example could be: the heroes enter the lair of one of the great spiders, expecting to attack her or deal with her in some convenient way. But they arrive right in the moment when the Spider is meeting with one of the Ringwraiths... and SUDDENLY... the wretched shadow senses (smells) human flesh and looks their way.
If try to run, let them! Have them gain a few points of shadow and live to tell the tale. The opportunity to attack the spiders that year got ruined anyway, and in a very interesting way too!

Also, one good revelation episodes is TREASON! Just carefully select one of the NPCs that the players like, think of the pros/cons of having him change sides and then... have the NPC betray the PCs! Try to do it in a scheming way, not in a frontal, immediate combat manner. Have him hate the PCs for some reason. Maybe they could not save someone that was dear to that NPC, or have him fall into corruption in a more direct manner (a servant of the enemy enchants him or convinces him to change sides).

[aramis]

I've only had one Revelation episode... and it being too early, it was just ravens... spooky, eerie, ravens who took too much interest in what the party was doing.

[Dunkelbrink]

Thanks for the suggestions Corvo, and I agree to what you all have stated above. I also share Farenthal's concerns about the Revelation being a destructive element for the story if not handled well.

The Revelation has to feel bad for the players. They must see the glass beads (or what else you're using) adding up and fear the moment when they reach the limit and the Company is revealed. Otherwise the mechanic will lose its effect. So if the change is subtle for the players (for example enemies suddenly Hating them or a friend turning traitor) I think you have to describe it in some other way, like dark clouds, chill winds, bad feelings and the hair on their arms standing up.

For my first Revelelation, taking place in the barrow in the corpse-woods where the Company went with Ceawin, I had Ceawin succumb to the wight's calling even after the Company defeating it. Bad for the Company and good for the campaign plot I think, but not something the players would notice. I am still not sure if that was a good revelation.

The risk, as Farenthal pointed out, is that a fun and balanced challenge instead becomes an impossible or mechanically "broken" challenge. A Revelation could probably work well för a Journey (making it really hard and the Company ending up with a lot of Fatigue - tough, but not lethal or story-breaking). I can also see the "Stormcrow" variant work, making an Encounter more difficult as suspicion rises (Encounters are normally very easy, at least if you follow RAW). Just adding abilities to a group of enemies that the Company would face anyhow doesn't fell as appropriate, and adding difficulty to a balanced and important part of the adventure - like Farenthal's exapmple from Dwimmerhorn - probably ruins the experience rather than adding to it.

How many Revelations have you had per adventure? Right now I'm getting about one Revelation per adventure phase, which seems ok, but maybe a bit much. I guess it depends on how often the players propose tasks and want to roll for skills. I imagined the Eye rule would take some of that willingness out of that urge, but so far I can't notice the difference.

[Andrew]

What about not only the Master succumbs to despair, but he flings open the gates in the middle of the night! That'd be pretty terrible for them, I must say

[Falenthal]

The risk, as Farenthal pointed out, is that a fun and balanced challenge instead becomes an impossible or mechanically "broken" challenge. A Revelation could probably work well för a Journey (making it really hard and the Company ending up with a lot of Fatigue - tough, but not lethal or story-breaking). I can also see the "Stormcrow" variant work, making an Encounter more difficult as suspicion rises (Encounters are normally very easy, at least if you follow RAW). Just adding abilities to a group of enemies that the Company would face anyhow doesn't fell as appropriate, and adding difficulty to a balanced and important part of the adventure - like Farenthal's exapmple from Dwimmerhorn - probably ruins the experience rather than adding to it.

Exactly!

I guess there should be, like in Ruins of the North, sort of a "theme" for every adventure of what a Revelation episode might be about. It's like preparing general ideas for Hazards when on a certain terrain: they don't need to occur, but if they do, you must be sure they're thematic and appropiate.

And, as Dunkelbrink said, everything related to "fight more monsters" or "the monsters you're figthing are stronger than usual" doesn't sound very Revelation to me.

Also, as I still haven't used the mechanic, I think I've missed the tensional part of seeing the colour beads adding up on the table. It's the kind of meta-game that helps increase the fun of the play. Knowing that something very bad is going to happen when the group is about to enter a dark place makes it even scarier.

[Robin Smallburrow]

IF you are going to use these optional rules (and I would suggest you check out Zedturtle's variant in the House Rules subforum) AND you have discussed The Eye of Mordor rules with your players beforehand, THEN i'm afraid it seems pretty obvious to me what the Revelation Episode is, which has already been mentioned by Andrew -namely the bridge is betrayed to the Enemy! If you don't follow through with this or something similarly nasty (another option would be that The Gibbet KIng's cage is shielded from harm) then the players won't respect these rules, they'll just shrug their shoulders the next time the pile of tokens gets big!

Robin S.

[Dunkelbrink]

IF you are going to use these optional rules (and I would suggest you check out Zedturtle's variant in the House Rules subforum) AND you have discussed The Eye of Mordor rules with your players beforehand, THEN i'm afraid it seems pretty obvious to me what the Revelation Episode is, which has already been mentioned by Andrew -namely the bridge is betrayed to the Enemy! If you don't follow through with this or something similarly nasty (another option would be that The Gibbet KIng's cage is shielded from harm) then the players won't respect these rules, they'll just shrug their shoulders the next time the pile of tokens gets big!

Robin S.

Well, I am already using the rules since I truly think they add some nice flavour to he game, and I've discussed them with the players (they're fond of Hazards and other unforseeable effects). I did look at zed's suggestions in the house rules forums, but I believe the RAW works great as they are and don't see any need for change. As I stated above, the effect of a Revelation has to be noticeable for the players or the mechanic will lose its edge, so I agree on that. I don't know if I agree that the revelation episode in this case is "obvious" though; that's why I started this thread, to see what experiences different Loremasters have with the Eye of Mordor rules. I agree that Andrew's suggestion is a good one, though, and will probably use it in this case, trying to have the Master of Celduin show a few Denethor characteristics.