Special Abilities

[Hermes Serpent]

One of the things that I find not very clearly explained in the rules is how creatures use their Special Abilities.

This Friday I was dealing with a group investigating the area around Dol Guldur. They'd fought a pack of wolves last session and had a run-in with the creatures in the Black Tarn before that but I was finding that Episodes often consisted of the set up, Opening Shots and then a few rounds of pounding - not very inspiring. So I thought I'd sit down today and examine the things that would make an Episode stand out as a something a little special with some memorable moments to give the heroes a story to reminisce about.

I took a look at spiders as one of the iconic creatures of the Hobbit and one that Thorin's company had a major problem with. Reading through the stats for the various types of spider I found that they are far more dangerous than I had previously thought.

It seems that it seems that the first weapon in the table for any creature is it's 'normal' or primary weapon. This seems at odds with the weapons listed under each creature, for example some creature have a spear listed as the second item when I would expect that the longer weapon would be the preferred one. It is possibly because the spear can be thrown in the Opening Shots section and would not be available during melee combat. This is not what I expect for some creatures. Again as an example the Orc Chieftain LMB p 73 has a favoured spear with a skill of 2 and an orc-axe with a skill of 3. The spear is listed second which seems out of place for a favoured weapon and surely the favoured weapon would/should be higher in skill level? The spear being favoured rolls 2 dice +5 to hit for an average of 17.4, the Orc-axe rolls 3 dice for an average of 15.9. Another example is the Orc Guard with spear and bent sword. The spear is listed first with a skill of 3 and the sword has a skill of 2 making the attack rolls averages 15.9 and 12.4. In both cases the orc would be foolish to throw his spear even if it were not his primary weapon as it is better all round than the other choice.

I haven't seen any design notes or anything else that indicates why the weapons are listed in any particular order so it's a bit of a mystery unless I just haven't seen that information.

So back to the spiders. All of them except one of the named ones in Heart have Ensnare as the first 'weapon' listed. Ensnare associated with spiders is mentioned on LMB p 75 where it says 'The creature uses its thread to capture its target, using the Seize Victim power' as a note in the Spider Weapons table and 'If the Ensnare roll is successful and produces a great or extraordinary success, the spider immediately attacks its victim using its sting.' as a note under that table.

The first mention of Ensnare is in the combat example on LMB p50, 'The Attercop’s primary attack is ensnare, a favoured ability: it adds its Attribute level of 3 to its roll against its TN 16, scoring an extraordinary success! Unfortunately for the Bride, not only she is caught in the sticky web of the Attercop using its Seize Victim power, but the spider tries immediately to sting her!' there are another couple of mentions but only the example nothing in the rules themselves besides the notes on the Spider Weapons table.

The Seize Victim power says 'If the creature’s main form of attack has hit, the creature may hold on to the target to reduce the mobility of the victim: a seized victim cannot change stance, and sees its Parry rating reduced to half (rounding fractions up).'

This implies that the first listed 'weapon' is the main form of attack for any creature but really the whole spider using Ensnare to fire it's web to seize a target is not completely explained except in dribs and drabs rather than in one particular place. A simple explanation of these special attacks would have been very useful in explaining the interaction of attacks and special abilities. The Great Leap ability is much the same and I won't go over the same ground again.

If the text in any of the sections of the LMB on spiders had said, "Spiders use Ensnare to hit their target with a strand of sticky silk, and if successful have their Seize Victim special ability to entangle and wrap them up in the silk threads before biting them to immobilise them with poison after Body or Heart rating rounds." it would have been so much clearer. I'm guessing that Ensnare isn't able to entangle a non adjacent target and their Great Leap ability is used to get at targets other than those in close combat.

It must be painfully hard for those not reading this in their native language to comprehend how everything is supposed to work in the rules.

Comments?

[Mordagnir]

I think I'd find the game unplayable without a searchable PDF. Whenever possible, I now try to consolidate everything about how a foe fights before the session in which the company meets it. For being such a slick system, TOR can be clunky thanks to the challenge of trying to find everything fast enough that you don't break the flow of the game.

[James Harrison]

Interesting,

perhaps someone could do an "Updated Bestiary" which simply spells out how each creature fights, to be used along side the main books. Orc swords vs. spears can be given as options for harder/easier fights... or could be for a thrown spear followed up by an axe.

Hum, this might be something I could potter about with while in Uganda... although I would need some advice on putting files in dropbox etc.

Anyone else like this idea?

God bless,
james

[Hermes Serpent]

James, a fan-written Updated Bestiary is probably not possible with the restrictions placed on reproducing TOR material in fan publications. It would be possible to have a forum discussion of how these things worked and for any interested party to collate those discussions for their own use but not put them out as a coherent package.

[James Harrison]

My thought, although I did not express this well, was to have the bestiary being something to read alongside the monsters in the books, explaining how their abilities could work together etc. but not reproducing them.
Would this be a workable premice, or not?

[Hermes Serpent]

That could probably be done without infringing on any IP. The spiders was the easy one as they did them in the example combat so let's try something a little different.

Orcs and trolls are just variants of a creature that pounds it's enemies into pulp and their special abilities are geared towards doing just that.

Wolves use their Great Leap to attack anyone they choose to get a Seize after biting and thus allow an easier attack for another wolf or ally. Werewolves and Hounds of Sauron are just variants of wolves and use similar tactics, with an option to Rend the Seized victim. I'm not sure exactly how Great Leap plays out compared to Fell Speed though. The statement in Fell Speed allows a different target to be selected at the start of a turn which Great Leap doesn't.

So perhaps a discussion of how Great Leap is supposed to work and how it's different to Fell Speed.

[Beleg]

I think Fell Speed means that the wolf doesn't have to try to escape combat with the PC which has already engaged it, allowing it to attack any other member of the party in a melee stance

[Hermes Serpent]

Let's look at a combat and see how Great leap and Fell Speed interact with the heroes.

1) Adversaries more than Heroes
Every hero get's an Adversary, extras either shoot or attack an already engaged hero. LMB p45

2) More heroes than Adversaries (or equal numbers)
Each hero picks an enemy to fight and extra heroes can attack already engaged Adversaries or stand back and shoot. LMB p45

In case one the extra adversary with Great Leap can spend a Hate point to 'attack any one companion, in any combat stance including Rearward.'

With Fell Speed 'can choose which heroes to engage at the beginning of every turn (even when in inferior numbers), can attack heroes in any stance, and can choose to abandon combat at the beginning of any round.'

So it seems (but isn't written) that with Great Leap only un-engaged adversaries can attack heroes, but the defenders can be any target even those in Rearward stance.

With Fell Speed the adversary can attack anyone in each turn regardless of whether or not it is already engaged.

In case two a Great Leap is not possible as there are no un-engaged targets, but Fell Speed means that no-one is safe.

So if an adversary is one with Great Leap as a Special Ability then they should be used in a situation where they outnumber the heroes or their ability will not apply. Those enemies with Fell Speed are dangerous regardless of numbers. So Wolves are less deadly than Great bats as the 3 dice wolf attack is no more effective than the 2 dice+3 bats attack and the bat bite is harder to resist (Injury 14 vs. 16).

An Attercop spider is only more dangerous than a wolf because of it's Ensnare ability reducing the hero's Parry and ability to avoid another attack. Again Great Leap needs to be used when outnumbering the heroes or it won't be effective.

I picked the Attercop, Wolf and Bat because their attribute levels and attack skills are all relatively equal.

[Marko]

I’m not sure I share your interpretation, Hermes.

I think any creature with Great Leap can attack any hero, whenever it spends a point of Hate. Regardless of the stance of the hero. This includes already engaged creatures.

A creature with Fell Speed can alway choose to engage a hero, even when outnumbered. They can engage any hero, even if the hero is in a rearward stance. But when already engaged, the creature cannot change that.

It’s kind of the opposite of what you said. I come to this conclusion, because I cannot find anything in the rules that allows to attack a hero the creature is not engaged with. But under Great Leap there is the wording of “Reduce the creature’s Hate point score by one to attack...”, indicating that this is an exception of the rule.

This cannot be found under Fell Speed. On the contrary, it indicates that this ability can only be used at the beginning of the round.

[Hermes Serpent]

The turn referred to in Fell Speed is the single sequence of actions undertaken by a character as part of a Combat Round. A Combat Round is 'the time it takes a hero to accomplish a significant action' and is split into player turns and non-player turns (LMB p46 & 47).

Fell Speed says:
'can choose which heroes to engage at the beginning of every turn (even when in inferior numbers), can attack
heroes in any stance'
This is clearly meant as an option that can be chosen at the start of the creatures turn and, as inferior numbers means that all non-player characters are engaged, must allow for adversaries previously engaged to disengage and attack another target without any reaction from the previously engaged target.

The phrasing 'choose which heroes to engage' is clearly meant to allow an attack as there is no other reason to engage something.

Great Leap says:
'Reduce the creature’s Hate point score by one to attack any one companion, in any combat stance including
Rearward.'
So apart from requiring a Hate point spend, which Fell Speed doesn't, it doesn't state that the target can be chosen at the start of the adversaries turn just that the expenditure of the Hate Point allows any target to be attacked. Should the expenditure of the Hate point allow for disengagement and a new target attacked? It could but it doesn't say that the current target is ignored implying to me that the action can only be used by non-engaged adversaries. Without a written description of how this is to be narrated it's hard to see how this should work.

The two Special Abilities are similar enough that apart from a need to decrement the number of Hate points for the Great Leap they could be interchangeable if they both allowed for an adversary to attack any target when it starts it's own turn. As they are used for creatures possessing flight or high agility in the case of Fell Speed and having a real life Great Leap or jump i.e. spiders and wolves they must represent different styles of attack. Judging how those differing styles are to be described by the Loremaster is where the challenge seems to be.

Saying 'the bats swoop on you and attack X, Y and Z' and 'the wolves leap on you, attacking X, Y and Z' are identical in effect as X, Y and Z are attacked.