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Rich H wrote:Apologies that I started this.

</sigh>

I'm sure I don't just speak for myself here but the jokes were made in an honest way, without any malice, and laughing at the word having a modern day meaning and (maybe even) poking a little fun at the source material; it really was nothing more than that. I do honestly think anyone reading it would appreciate that context and not be put off posting in this forum as the comments were made in a non-directed and, even sometimes, a self-depracating way. The joking did stray into adult territory though and I appreciate Jon pointing that out.

We also got a great response from TS drawing out where in the book the reference related to.

Ultimately, I blame Tolkien for not future-proofing his work. Tsk.

I'm not the one truly impacted by it, but I appreciate it.

You're right that there's some component of language drift at work. For example, a 'bundle of firewood' might make an appearance in my game but other words won't, despite being more succinct and well attested in the source material. But I'm not going to use it... my PbP games happen at open, globally accessible tables and I never know who's walking by and I want them to give a good impression.

Like the above... I can see that conversation happening at a table. If it's a table in a public place, then certain folks (my semi-hypothetical gamer above) might have to wonder "is this a group I want to join? Is this a one-time thing or is it the tip of the iceberg? If I sit down, does the joking start to include me or does it start to focus on me?"

Mind you, I'm not saying that anyone is being a harasser. I'm just worried that further travel down that road starts to look very uncomfortable to certain folks walking by our global table.

I think what you're referring to there, if I'm picking out the right word, would be a pejorative aimed at a section of society whereas the one we've been having fun over isn't. I'd never call it out in the same way I did with this word here as it could easily be read by someone of that particular persuasion. And to call that out would be highlighting this and directing it at that particular group. So, no thanks to that; not acceptable at all and therefore not really the same thing.

I didn't think you were calling anyone out as a harasser, no worries, and I think your point was well made, even if I don't entirely agree with it for this instance. I just wanted to make sure if anyone was reading this that the context wasn't malicious or anything nasty like that.

Personally I'm more concerned with people being put off playing the game, and frequenting this forum, when people get into nth degrees of discussions about some arcane point of lore!

Just to point out there is another use of the word wang. It is used to describe the activity of throwing Wellington boots in competition. It is called wellie wanging.

In my humble opinion things should not be censored because of sensibilities, in fact I'm fairly sure that people reading this might have learnt something in regards to the evolution of the English language. No one was being offensive, yes there was a little fun made with the word.

Keep your pecker up Rich

Cheers Poo!

Jon's house so I totally get where he's coming from and zed's post was completely fine and well put too.

I'm not a mod, but could we now just use the thread to discuss the awesome content of the supplement? I think we've really illustrated how civilised and appreciative we can be with regard to how we've all commented which shows we can have a laugh and a chuckle but also say sorry whether the offense is real or not.

Indeed we do need to be talking about a certain statue and a certain dwarf ghost. For clarity, I think both are awesome.

What I'm enjoying is how the vast majority of the Hazards could easily be expanded into developing a full scene in an adventure or more. I mean, they aren't just 'direct' hazards but have lots of interesting lore and other 'fluff' built into them. It actually makes me want to run them in a journey as points of interest whether the PCs roll an EYE or not.

I'm waiting for the payment confirmation, so I can get my .PDF copy... Can't hardly wait!

Thanks to the writing team for this, it is a real pearl.

I've just finished reading this through now. Frankly, I was expecting a tightening up of the Journey rules and some (always welcome) extras of Art and maps. This was so much more. The descriptions of the regions at the start is impressive and if I was active as an LM (my son is back at uni and very busy in his final year: well I hope he is!) then these descriptions would help me bump up the atmosphere and encourage wider descriptions back. They are great.

However, the work on boats is a bonus: it keeps it away from becoming a part of a Gondor supplement and lets maritime travel stand on its own.

The next part about ruins is brilliant: I love it. Atmosphere and information in a very helpful format.

And finally a labour of love compiling all those references to date that qualify as places that could have ruins in them. The list seemed to go ever on & on. This product line has a huge number of original extras and has also seemlessly added in canon places. Whoever worked on that list has removed any Shadow points by an extraordinary Craft act. Well done.

... You know, reading it a bit more today, I'd actually go so far as to say that from a Loremaster perspective it's the best collected 30 pages of all the books released so far. I recommended it instead of Rivendell to Havinor in his 'new LM looking for some tips' thread and I completely stand by that. I wish I'd had it to hand sooner for my campaign because those sections on Hazards and Ruins are brilliant.

Pre-order completed. I'm just waiting for the pdf now.