Mounted Archery

[Falenthal]

Still reading once and again the Mounted Combat rules (Wheeling and Reading them, you might say ) to get a whole idea of the concepts behind.

I came up with the question of how do the actual rules contemplate archers on horseback?

The rohirrim, for instance, can use Bow and nowhere is it said that a bow cannot be used from horseback.

I think there might be two different situations that can come up with mounted archers:
A) A mounted character or NPC that, simply, is in Rearward Stance firing a bow.

While the character would still get the Armour Encumbrance Reduction benefit of being mounted, I don't see any other benefit or hindrance applying to him. Enemies with ranged weapons might still target the mount to force Riding tests. But as far as I can see, the forced Riding test doesn't prevent the mounted character from attacking. That is, the Riding test is made in addition to his action (firing the bow, preparing shot,...), not instead.

B) A mounted character or NPC that wants to fire his bow AND stay out of melee range from his enemies. I think that was a common tactic by some eastern cultures. Or a company of mounted elven archers might look great like this.
That might be a little trickier, if supported by the RAW at all.

Maybe it should be considered as an attempt to chain Opening Volleys with Escape Combat (given that horses grant a bonus to the Athletics roll). So, it could look like this:

1.Opening Volleys are resolved
2. Proceed to Close Quarters
3. When it's the Mounted Archer's turn to act, he tries to Escape Combat
4. If succesful, the Mounted Archer decides to enter the Onset phase again next turn
5. Opening Volleys are resolved again

If the Mounted Archer is part of a group that includes melee fighters, he might simply be considered as in case A.


Any thought? As said in the beginning, I'm not trying to house-rule anything. Just to understand what does the RAW support, as I've had the experience of finding once and again that the RAW can be fully usable for situations not specified in the rules, but that seem to have been taken into consideration when designing the mechanics of the game.

[Hermes Serpent]

Based on Germanic cultures as the Professor's work is, there is no reason to have mounted archers. It wasn't a thing for those cultures (AFAICT) and I certainly wouldn't encourage it. If a PC wanted to shoot a bow from horseback then not only would they have to make a riding test but I'd give them a -4 modifier for firing from an unstable platform that could move or twitch very easily just as the arrow was loosed. They certainly couldn't use a Great Bow although I suspect there's one or two who would state "it's not forbidden" and hope to squeeze a concession out of a less confident LM.

[Arthadan]

Without a word or cry, suddenly, the Riders halted. A thicket of spears were pointed towards the strangers; and some of the horsemen had bows in hand, and their arrows were already fitted to the string. Then one rode forward, a tall man, taller than all the rest; from his helm as a crest a white horsetail flowed. He advanced until the point of his spear was within a foot of Aragorn's breast. Aragorn did not stir.

The Two Towers, Book I, Chapter II: The Riders of Rohan

[Hermes Serpent]

Interesting quote there. Thanks. I still won't encourage mounted archery and as i'm the only one with the book and we are currently heading for a discussion with Saruman concerning the Werewolf of Mirkwood I don't believe we'll get too many players wanting the be Riders.

[Curulon]

There is a Virtue similar to the way Wood-Elf Magic works called King's Guard Rohirrim can take that includes this:

Horse-archery
You are allowed to use a bow from horseback from any combat stance, as if it were a close combat weapon. Additionally, the number of Success dice rolled on your ranged attacks using a bow are not limited by your Athletics score (see Riding in Combat, page 135).

So, I'd say not only is it allowed, it's encouraged.

[Falenthal]

There is a Virtue similar to the way Wood-Elf Magic works called King's Guard Rohirrim can take that includes this:

Horse-archery
You are allowed to use a bow from horseback from any combat stance, as if it were a close combat weapon. Additionally, the number of Success dice rolled on your ranged attacks using a bow are not limited by your Athletics score (see Riding in Combat, page 135).

So, I'd say not only is it allowed, it's encouraged.

Oh! I had read it, but didn't remember at all. Thanks, Curulon!

I guess by RAW mounted archery is not permited usually, unless for special trained units. Which I see fit.
Easterlings and Wainriders would (if they were playable cultures) have similar Virtues.

[Indur Dawndeath]

I read the rules as: Archery on horseback is exactly the same as on foot, except the limit of sucess dice is equal to ranks in athletics...
Regarding mounted archery tactics, I'd do it another way. Allow a number of opening volleys based on a Battle test. One extra per success
Cheers

[Falenthal]

Regarding mounted archery tactics, I'd do it another way. Allow a number of opening volleys based on a Battle test. One extra per success

This would be a kind of house-ruling, isn't it?

An option that follows the RAW, IMHO, would be to allow Wheeling and Charge as with melee fighters, only that the ranged attack is done during the volleys allowed before Charge.

In fact, we could have a group of, say, 4 horsemen. 3 of them use spears and swords. The fourth uses a bow.
They decide to Charge a group of enemies.
The enemies have bows and spears, and get their Opening Volleys before receiving the Charge.
The archer horseman also gets an Opening Volley, but with a Riding test first.
The other horsemen get their Charge (Riding test + Melee attack)

If all horsemen (archer and melee) suceeded at their riding tests and were able to attack, they decide to Wheel and Charge again.

They do a second Riding test and all succeed.

The enemies AND the archer horseman do their volley attacks.
After them, the melee horsemen do their charge.

Repeat until a horseman fails his Riding test.

Without the Virtue Curulon mentioned, of course, the bow attacks would be limited by the Athletics skill.
Don't know if the archer would have an additional -2 or -4 for inestability, or if the difficulty of firing from a horse is already considered in the limited skill ranks.

[Indur Dawndeath]

Regarding mounted archery tactics, I'd do it another way. Allow a number of opening volleys based on a Battle test. One extra per success

This would be a kind of house-ruling, isn't it?

Not really. We are allowed to judge if more than one volley is permitted, why not make it depend on a Battle test to see how well the maneouver is executed...
But I also like the idea of using the charge mechanic. Riding tests of increasing difficulty. As long as everyone succeeds the riding tests, they get to fire their bow or make a charge attack.
I would definitly not use escape combat. IMO that is used to flee and not be part of the combat anymore...

[cuthalion]

Hmm . . . feeling a bit confused. Does the Horse Archery virtue imply that, without it, you can't use a bow from horseback? Because the description of using skills while on horseback in combat above on p.135 doesn't exclude ranged weapons, in fact it seems pretty inclusive:

For this reason, a mounted character making a skill roll of any type (Common or Weapon skill) while fighting can never roll more Success dice than their Athletics skill score would allow (including any bonus Success dice granted by preliminary rolls).

(My emphasis.)

Also, secondary question--does Horse Archery then allow you to use it on a charge, with the charge bonus? Wouldn't seems to make any sense, as the charge bonus is explicitly tied to the size/momentum of the horse, which wouldn't carry via a ranged weapon, but it isn't really clear. Would seem like there are some common sense limits on the charge bonus that aren't really stated--surely you wouldn't get one using a dagger?

Lastly, on stances, as it stands there can't be any talk of a mounted archer in rearward stance--the rules are pretty clear that mounted combatants can only fight in Forward or Open stance, p.137, hence Horse Archery opens up those stances to those using ranged weapons. This makes some sense, and I would think precludes mounted archers taking part in an opening volley--I have the feeling they need to be included in the charge (i.e. those skirmish tactics of horse archers hanging back just might not be accounted for here, or yet). Just question whether a mounted archer actually receives a charge bonus.

Any of this making sense? Am I missing something obvious?