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zedturtle wrote:Unfortuately, the example in the core book is All Companions - Misery, so we can't automatically assume that a Misery result in the tale always affects everyone. Apparently, it does however... In "The World looked Wild and Wide" in J&M though it's identified as a Lookout Misery result, it has everyone in the company making Wisdom tests. So Misery seems to be special.

That's an error in J&M. That Hazard should be for All Companions, not the Look-out. I flagged that one up to Andrew/Jon several days ago.

Otaku-sempai wrote:Ponies are strong. Many have been bred to pull mine carts and similar loads. I'm not sure what RAW says, but one pony should be able to carry a fair amount of supplies. I would think that a small adventuring company (3 to 5 individuals) could get away with only one or two pack-beasts.

A lot depends on what one defines as a pony...

Icelandic horses usually meet the "standard meaning" of a pony - ≤14.2 hands to the whithers (56.8", 147cm) is the standard dividing line.

Icelandics usually meet that - averaging some 13.5 hands, ±2 hands in the ±1 sigma... and 330-380 kg and can routinely carry a large adult male in armor. (I've ridden and worked with some icelandics... short, round, and able to carry my 130kg bulk plus a full day's provender.)

Shetland Ponies, the ones most think of, average 7 hands, and about 450 lbs...


A typical small pony is 6-8 hands, 200-250kg.
A typical large pony is 10-12 hands 300-350 kg.
The "typical" riding horse is 15-16 hands (60-64in 151-161cm), 400-450 kg...
A draft horse is 17-19 hands, and 630-900kg...
A few breeds can exceed 20 hands (yes, 2m), and 1200kg. I've personally seen one horse that was 2m at the whithers; same stable as the icies I worked with. He'd bite at heads over the 6' fence of his stall, and his withers were more than a hand over the fence.

A typical horse can carry 1/4 its mass comfortable, 1/3 if packed in good fitting harness, or pull 1.5x its mass in cart or sleigh, or its mass in sledge or dragged log.
A typical pony carries up to half its own mass comfortable, and pulls double in cart or sleigh.
Some particularly strong breeds (Icies) can pull 2-2.5x their own mass... if harnessed and yoked properly. A friend used two icies. Ironically, most draft horses do not fall into this. Mules and Icies, some stouter breeds of small pony...

aramis wrote:A typical horse can carry 1/4 its mass comfortable, 1/3 if packed in good fitting harness, or pull 1.5x its mass in cart or sleigh, or its mass in sledge or dragged log.
A typical pony carries up to half its own mass comfortable, and pulls double in cart or sleigh.
Some particularly strong breeds (Icies) can pull 2-2.5x their own mass... if harnessed and yoked properly. A friend used two icies. Ironically, most draft horses do not fall into this. Mules and Icies, some stouter breeds of small pony...

Well, if we are going to try to standardize this then maybe the bolded sentence above should be our rule-of-thumb.

I have anothe question regarding ponies:
Can a Hobbit / Dwarf get a pony Travel horse, or even a Warhorse?
If Icelandic horses are ponies, then they'd definitly be able to ride into battle

zedturtle wrote:I doubt that the Fellowship of the Ring was reducing Fatigue gains because they had Bill, however.

Bill restored Hope. He was that good.

Otaku-sempai wrote:

aramis wrote:A typical horse can carry 1/4 its mass comfortable, 1/3 if packed in good fitting harness, or pull 1.5x its mass in cart or sleigh, or its mass in sledge or dragged log.
A typical pony carries up to half its own mass comfortable, and pulls double in cart or sleigh.
Some particularly strong breeds (Icies) can pull 2-2.5x their own mass... if harnessed and yoked properly. A friend used two icies. Ironically, most draft horses do not fall into this. Mules and Icies, some stouter breeds of small pony...

Well, if we are going to try to standardize this then maybe the bolded sentence above should be our rule-of-thumb.

It's important to note that larger horses carry less as a fraction. But, yeah, that's why I offered that up.

aramis wrote:It's important to note that larger horses carry less as a fraction. But, yeah, that's why I offered that up.

I agree, but I was keeping the topic focused on ponies. You're right, though, that if we are to know the carrying capacities for ponies, we should have them for other beasts of burden as well.

Otaku-sempai wrote:

aramis wrote:It's important to note that larger horses carry less as a fraction. But, yeah, that's why I offered that up.

I agree, but I was keeping the topic focused on ponies. You're right, though, that if we are to know the carrying capacities for ponies, we should have them for other beasts of burden as well.

Oxen pull 2.5-3 times their own weight. Records run just short of 4x.

Sled dogs routinely pull half their weight at speeds of 10 mph for 8-10 hours a day and be ready for more; for shorter duration (a few minutes), up to 50x their own mass can be dragged. From what I can tell, a team can pull its own mass comfortably at about 5 MPH for 8-12 hours as well - that's the usual working load for a sled team.

aramis wrote:

Otaku-sempai wrote:

aramis wrote:It's important to note that larger horses carry less as a fraction. But, yeah, that's why I offered that up.

I agree, but I was keeping the topic focused on ponies. You're right, though, that if we are to know the carrying capacities for ponies, we should have them for other beasts of burden as well.

Oxen pull 2.5-3 times their own weight. Records run just short of 4x.

Sled dogs routinely pull half their weight at speeds of 10 mph for 8-10 hours a day and be ready for more; for shorter duration (a few minutes), up to 50x their own mass can be dragged. From what I can tell, a team can pull its own mass comfortably at about 5 MPH for 8-12 hours as well - that's the usual working load for a sled team.

How important do you think this numbers are for the game mechanics?

If TOR doesn't use weights for objects, and even doesn't keep a record of every object carried, how can this be of help? I, for one, don't know what you're hinting at.

Regarding the OP, I usually play so that the fellowship has "enough ponies" to reduce the Fatigue by 1 for each memeber. If a Hazard is planned so that they might lose them, I simply narrate that "they've lost the ponies and must carry their own luggage". From then one, noone sees his Fatigue gains reduced.

Unless you keep a record of what objects is the group carrying, and which ones are on the ponies, how they're distributed, which pony was the one that run away, etc. I feel the effort of "counting ponies" will always lead to a discussion over which characters were affected by the loss and which not.

With respect to the discussion on number of ponies...

I am wondering if anyone has yet looked at the table on page 160 of the revised rules?

This indicates (to me) that the game mechanics foresee that each character has to pay for one pony (or one boat) and if he/she cannot afford it (and noone else is jumping in) then he/she will not benefit from the effect.

This still does not solve the issue of it being quite unrealistic to have 6 ponies for 6 adventurers - not to speak of 6 boats... but still it gives a hint of how it's meant to be.