Ranged Combat in Close Combat

[aramis]

I've found that allowing Open stance to shoot at TN12+parry (instead of 9+ parry) works well. It provides literally no advantages to fighting in melee other than counting as a close combat member, and the disadvantage to balance of being 3 points easier to hit than a rearward stance...

It wasn't my house rule; I borrowed it from someone else, but it works quite beautifully. And once the elf raises a sword or spear to decent, they usually switch to it for close combat later on....

[bluejay]

The problem (for the Elf player) was that they were up against 10 Attercops and a Great Spider (exceeding the 2:1 for Rearward Stance), and the Attercops have Great Leap, forcing the Elf out of Rearward stance when they attacked him.

I'm not entirely understanding this. Firstly the Elf couldn't be in Rearward Stance in the first place. Secondly, when Attercops use Great Leap they do not force a character out of Rearward Stance (as far as I'm aware). Really all it does is allow an enemy combatant to use a close combat attack as a ranged attack and thus target a Rearward companion for one round.

[uhu79]

Really all it does is allow an enemy combatant to use a close combat attack as a ranged attack and thus target a Rearward companion for one round.

I agree with the first half. However, I would see the engagement in close combat as lasting and not only for one round. As soon as the hero can get rid of the enemy he is in rearward stance again.

[Hermes Serpent]

I usually play Great Leap on Rearward characters as forcing them to chose a CC stance until they kill the attacker or run away to get out of close combat and return later (maybe losing a round). It happens with Wolves/Wargs as well as Spiders and is useful to stop the maxed out archer from one-shotting lots of creatures from a place of safety.

[Cawdorthane]

... I would see the engagement in close combat as lasting and not only for one round. As soon as the hero can get rid of the enemy he is in rearward stance again.

[/quote]

No the RAW are pretty clear: Great leap = Reduce the creature’s Hate point score by 1 to attack any one companion, in any combat stance including Rearward. This replaces their normal attack

So as long as it has Hate to spend, a creature can keep on doing Great Leaps each round, but it does not stop the Archer resuming rearward stance in the following round. Playing it otherwise makes it way too powerful a trait for a cost of only 1 Hate...

Loremasters can of course house-rule to suit their own group's preferences, but I personally prefer to leave Hawk the Slayer type archers to more cinematic roleplaying systems than TOR. Legolas in LotR as written did not have the bow equivalent of a Sturmgewehr and I for one see little need to mimic such antics in TOR.

If a Companion overspecialises in Ranged Combat, then he or she has only themself to blame if occasionally faced by 2-1+ numbers or foes with Great Leap. Far from being 'nerfed' by the LM, imho they are metagaming and ought to suck it in on occasion when they are caught out...

cheers
Mark

[bluejay]

Thanks Cawdorthane, that is absolutely my reading of the situation. While I appreciate this is abstract I tend to think of this as a creature leaping forward too quickly for the front rank to stop them (or even leaping over them) to strike the archer. The companions then close rank again to protect the archer meaning that the creature has to pull a similar tactic a second time (thus spending Hate again) to strike the archer again.

EDIT: although that quote was uhu79 and not me.

[Cawdorthane]

Oops sorry bluejay - I really ought to learn how to master this whole quote thingy....

cheers
Mark

[Falenthal]

There's a lenghty discussion on the subject of Great Leap here:viewtopic.php?f=7&t=802 (thanks to zedturtle's signature link to FAQ).

But I'll give my opinon right away...

Really all it does is allow an enemy combatant to use a close combat attack as a ranged attack and thus target a Rearward companion for one round.

I agree with the first half. However, I would see the engagement in close combat as lasting and not only for one round. As soon as the hero can get rid of the enemy he is in rearward stance again.

I think that the RAW is not clear on this dicotomy, but I use Uhu79's interpretation.

While I wouldn't argue with anyone using it the other way, I consider that the Extended Example of Play hints (while also not uttermost clear) at the interpretation of "use 1 Hate point once to force a Rearward hero into a Melee stance":

The company face a
difficult challenge in the following rounds, as the Bride,
Beran and Trotter won’t be able to change stance and their
Parry is reduced to half its usual rating, as the spiders they
face have successfully seized them.

I read it so that Trotter is now facing a spider for the next round.
If Great Leap would only last one round, then he wouldn't be facing one next round (until the actions were declared again and one spider would be able to spend 1 Hate point to activate Great Leap).

[bluejay]

Hi guys, I just checked directly with Francesco and basically 1 Hate point allows an adversary to target any character in any stance for that one round. Once the attack is resolved everything else stays the same. Rearward characters are not forced into close combat and the adversary must use Great Leap again to attack them.

Hope this clarifies everything!

[Otaku-sempai]

Hi guys, I just checked directly with Francesco and basically 1 Hate point allows an adversary to target any character in any stance for that one round. Once the attack is resolved everything else stays the same. Rearward characters are not forced into close combat and the adversary must use Great Leap again to attack them.

Hope this clarifies everything!

If that is the case then we have to assume that the attacker is forced back again before the end of the round. I admit, that is not the answer that I would have expected.