Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

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uhu79
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by uhu79 » Sun May 01, 2016 3:14 pm

jamesrbrown wrote: I'm still wrestling with the Hope requirement. Right now I'm leaning negative.
I didn't mean to ask explicitely to spend hope on top. I just think that players will start to spend hope on their intervention rolls anyway in order to turn a failure into a success to reach the requested amount or to avoid the penalty.

Thx for the tweak, it's indeed better than the 2x amount...

I was not planning to use non-player commanders and I don't think that is in your original rules. Tonight I will have 2 player commanders. I am not sure if I will limit their options as you suggest. I quite like their special options and I could imagine they would always go for improving the assault wave result.

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uhu79
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by uhu79 » Sun May 01, 2016 8:41 pm

Quick note after my game tonight. It went very well and not so well.

Positive: Everyone enjoyed the rules, had fun and we experienced an epic battle!

Negative: They were some lucky bastards rolling no Eyes at all and rolling only 8s and 9s on the assault wave table.

More a little later.

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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by jamesrbrown » Sun May 01, 2016 10:48 pm

How did they do on their Endurance rolls? Did they lose much? Anyone Wounded? How many Assault Waves? Was there some good narration. I want to hear all about the battle! The fact that they got lucky on the Assault rolls just means The Free Peoples were meant to win the day.
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uhu79
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by uhu79 » Mon May 02, 2016 1:54 pm

The Battle of the Old Ford, Summer 2942

After the Battle of the Five Armies some scattered troops of orcs and goblins gathered at the Old Ford. They were an awful lot, consisting of wicked creatures from the Misty Mountains, some cruel folk from the Gundabad area and even some remnants of a large host that used to dwell in the Mountains of Mirkwood. Without a real leader they were only driven by their lust to kill and plunder and so they plagued the land East and West of the Great River for months.

They were not stupid though and have somehow managed to build decent fortifications at the Old Ford and so they Free Peoples of the area had to gather some strength if they wanted to wipe this evil from their lands.
So the Free Peoples sent messengers back and forth between their villages and dwellings and in the end they came up with an army and a plan.

The forces of the Free Peoples (PCs in bold):

Gebéric the Strong, seasoned warlord of a hardy folk that called some valleys close to the High Pass their home. (They will soon call themselves “Beornings” but Beorn has not yet declared himself as a leader in the Summer of 2942. Gebéric happens to be the father of one of the PCs in the actual campaign we are playing. He was too young in 2942 as he started adventuring only in 2946.)

Osred the Rider, chieftain of a proud group of riders, descendants of a horse-folk that once lived north of the Old Ford. Osred recently came from the south. He had to flee the orcs there a while ago and wants to settle in this area. His mounted troops are a welcome reinforcement.

Ingomer Axebreaker, elected commander of the Woodmen for this battle, gathering his folk from all 4 houses and leading them to battle. The Woodmen and their farms have suffered the most from the raiding orcs. Among them was Haleth the Spearmaiden, a fierce Woodwife that has lost some of her closest relatives to the Shadow forces.

The major command objective: drive the forces of the Shadow from the ford and throw them into the Anduin.

The Battle - Round 1
We started with the onset of the battle. I set the Relative Strength of Numbers to be “evenly matched”. I set Shadow Threat to a “3”.

Then we discussed tactics, focusing on the Western shore where all the players where located. Gebéric planned to lead a bold assault from the West (he will fight “The Main Assault” with TN 18) while at the same time Ingomer would attack from the East. Shortly after this, Gebéric planned to fall back in a controlled manner, making it seem a retreat to pull the orcs from their stronghold in pursuit of their opponents. In the next round Osred should appear from behind a hill and charge the surprised goblins with his cavalry (the player of Osred joined our game a little later).

Before we got started, the player of Haleth raised the idea to approach the Old Ford also from the water. So Haleth and a group of brave fighters silently entered the low but still swift waters of the Anduin a bit up North, clung themselves onto some driftwood and stealthily entered the orc stronghold from the center. I asked for a STEALTH roll against TN 16 in order to determine the danger of this mission, meaning the placement of her and her folk on the battleground. She succeeded and so her assault was put in the Area of Engagement “flank” with TN 14. A failure would have put her “in the center” with TN 16.

I decided to set the Engagement Mood of the first assault wave manually and the description and plan of the Free Peoples seemed to justify a “5”.

Especially the player of Gebéric didn’t like that too much (he currently was about to roll 3 tests against TN 18 and would suffer 5 damage for each failure). So he tried to optimize his plans a little bit. He came up with the idea to charge with the first light of the day, when the sun comes out over Mirkwood, using his Orclore. I didn’t want to reduce the Engagement Mood but I offered to reduce the Shadow Threat temporarily by 1 point if he got the timing right. I chose to ask for an AWARENESS roll against 16. He succeeded.

So we entered into our first round of Battle with a Mood of 5, a Threat level of 2 and a roll on the Assault Wave Table of… I let a player roll: 9. So they reached their objectives and moved the Relative Strenght in Numbers one position in their favor. Lucky bastard! They did (of course) not choose to try and intervene with this result – so no additional rolls.

We directly jumped to the “Blood & Tears” chapter where Haleth succeeded on both rolls and Gebéric failed twice but spent 2 points of Hope to avoid endurance loss so early in the battle. (He was a commander but as there was no PC in his Area of Engagement to benefit from his commander special skills I ruled that he had to do the tests just like everybody else.)

I selected Haleth for this first round to give us a short narration of how the battle unfolded and Haleth gave us a wonderful description of how she silently swam in the dark waters. Lurking there, waiting for the sun and sign of the starting assault. Then quickly storming the Western shore with knives and daggers, swords and axes – attacking the orc archers from behind while Gebéric crashed into the fortifications. When Gebéric finally started his false retreat, half of the orcs stormed out to pursue their foes while the other half was driven by Haleth and her companions.

Time for heroic deeds. Gebéric didn’t come up with any but Haleth wanted to engage and kill one of the chieftains of the goblins on the Western shore. So I let her test her AXE against TN 18 and she succeeded. A little tale to tell after the battle (no Gandalf though…). With this action Haleth moved herself from the flank into the center of the battle (TN 16) for the next round.

The Battle – Round 2

The tactics of the Free Peoples was now to finish off the orcs on this side of the river. I set the Engagement Mood manually to “6” as I felt the orcs would be furious to see they have been ambushed and fooled but my players didn’t buy this. They felt the orcs should rather be intimidated by the combined forces of the Free Peoples and especially by the cavalry that entered the battle now. They were right I thought, so I gave them the chance to lower the Engagement Mood instead if they (jointly) created 2 successes on AWE against TN 18. And they did.

So it was Threat level 3 and Mood 4 and another player rolled the feat die on the Assault Wave table… a “9” again. The lucky bastard has a twin sister.
So again they reach their goals and move the Relative Strength one position in their favor.

Osred and Gebéric had to roll 3 times against TN 18 and they were fighting in the same Area so they could help each other out. Which they did. So no Endurance loss for them. Haleth was on her own and had to roll against TN 16. She failed twice, spending Hope once and taking 4 points of endurance loss.

This time I let the player of Gebéric tell the story of how the battle went so far. He started from the beginning as we haven’t heard this part before (remember we were with Haleth) and described the assault against the palisade, the fake retreat and the second charge with the support of the cavalry. Roaring, bearded men with axes and fierce women with spears – what a great battle!

Heroic deeds again. Everyone had an idea this time, so Gebéric had to save a youngling from death that he had sworn to protect, Osred picked up the banner from his fallen standard bearer and Haleth cleared the way into the Old Ford from rubble to allow the riders to charge through the ford in the next round (making it a TN 14 for Osred). (Everyone was successful, but no Gandalfs again, so no treasure, sorry.)

The Battle – Round 3

The Free Peoples were one step away from victory, the Western shore was theirs and the ford was clear and shallow so Osred decided to charge through and place the final blow to the Shadow forces. This time I decided to roll a die to determine the Engagement Mood and a “3” it was. Osred wanted to further decrease this so I let him roll against ATHLETICS (TN 18) to perform an impressive charge through the shallow ford. And, guess what, he succeded.

Gebéric and Haleth kept their position at the Western shore which meant that they found themselves as the “Rear Guard” (TN 12) this round.

So round 3 saw the Threat level at 3, the Mood at a meagre 2 and the Assault Wave Table roll produced an “8”. So also the third player was a lucky son. The Relative Strength in Numbers moved to “The Free Peoples Are Victorious!” and again nobody was interested in a re-roll.

We rolled the BATTLE tests for endurance losses for the last time. Only Osred lost 2 points as Gebéric managed to further lower the impact on his side of the battle (he was still a commander you know, using his AWE skill to lower the number of endurance tests to 2).

We experienced the final round through the eyes of Osred the Rider and his band. How they charged through the waters, burst through the enemy lines, united with the Woodmen of Ingomer and finally drove the remainders of the orcs into the Great River.

The final round of heroic actions was short as Gebéric and Haleth felt that slaughtering fleeing orcs at the Western shore was not very heroic and therefore didn’t take part. Osred wanted a final episode of him fighting at the battlement, sword in hand, against the last standing general of the orc host on the Eastern shore. A roll of SWORD against TN 20 and he did it. (No Gandalf though.)

From dawn to noon lasted the Battle of the Old Ford and it ended in a great victory for the Free Peoples and a crushing defeat for the forces of the Shadow. No Eyes were rolled. Hardly any endurance was lost. No Gandalfs were rolled either but a very nice story has been told and great fun has been had.

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uhu79
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by uhu79 » Mon May 02, 2016 3:52 pm

Three things I forgot to mention:

Thanks Zed for the map of the fortified Old Ford- I was using it and it was very helpful!

The whole battle took us approximately 2 hours on Roll20 including all the talking about the new rules etc.

The players decided NOT to engage in a Last Stand episode because it was a test after all and there was no need trying out the combat rules - they knew them well already. However, in a real episode it would have been a "fair" Last Stand as the last result was "The Night is Ending". So I guess they would have gladly taken their chance to even improve their great result.

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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by jamesrbrown » Mon May 02, 2016 5:38 pm

Hoorah! Great write up. Thanks for all the details; it sounds like you had a ton of fun telling stories. I am so pleased.

What do you think of the following ideas?

1. If any intervening player-hero rolls an Eye (failure or not), a Battle Hazard is triggered OR the result of the Assault Wave roll is automatically lowered by 1 step in favour of the Shadow forces.

2. The penalty for failing to intervene increases the overall Engagement Mood by +1 (max 6) for the current Assault Wave, which affects all player-heroes instead of just the intervening heroes.

The first idea provides a dilemma for the companions: "The more of us who choose to intervene, the greater chance we have of succeeding." However, the more of us who roll the Feat die, the greater the chance of rolling an Eye, which forces an overall setback or risking personal loss and possibly overall setback through a Battle Hazard.

The second idea simplifies the penalty for a combine failure to intervene. Rather than dealing with each player-hero's results, the overall Engagement Mood is simply increased. This may also drive tension between the companions on the battlefield as they weigh out the risks of making big tactical moves.
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by jamesrbrown » Mon May 02, 2016 5:55 pm

uhu79 wrote:I was not planning to use non-player commanders and I don't think that is in your original rules. Tonight I will have 2 player commanders. I am not sure if I will limit their options as you suggest. I quite like their special options and I could imagine they would always go for improving the assault wave result.
I understand this now. What you're saying is that it would be better to have "Intervention" as a regular option in Step 2: Tides of War (because if they needed to, players would always intervene), rather than taking away commander options in Step 3: Blood & Tears. Am I understanding you correctly?

Sorry, delayed reaction, but I can't stop thinking about it now: Your group was extremely lucky in their Assault rolls! I mean, we only designed the table with a 1/3 chance in favour of the Free Peoples. If they keep this up, I'm going to be tempted to drop that to a 1/4 chance and move an '8' result into "The Line is Held" level. Especially now with the intervention option. Lol.
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by zedturtle » Mon May 02, 2016 11:14 pm

uhu79 wrote:Three things I forgot to mention:

Thanks Zed for the map of the fortified Old Ford- I was using it and it was very helpful!

The whole battle took us approximately 2 hours on Roll20 including all the talking about the new rules etc.

The players decided NOT to engage in a Last Stand episode because it was a test after all and there was no need trying out the combat rules - they knew them well already. However, in a real episode it would have been a "fair" Last Stand as the last result was "The Night is Ending". So I guess they would have gladly taken their chance to even improve their great result.
No worries, glad it was helpful to you.

And thank you for posting the battle breakdown... Actual Play always helps with understanding and I think you done a great service by explaining things so well.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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uhu79
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Re: Experience with Mythic Battles anyone?

Post by uhu79 » Tue May 03, 2016 4:13 pm

jamesrbrown wrote: What do you think of the following ideas?

1. If any intervening player-hero rolls an Eye (failure or not), a Battle Hazard is triggered OR the result of the Assault Wave roll is automatically lowered by 1 step in favour of the Shadow forces.

2. The penalty for failing to intervene increases the overall Engagement Mood by +1 (max 6) for the current Assault Wave, which affects all player-heroes instead of just the intervening heroes.
I think they are both good and I feel the "Assault-Wave-intervention-add-on" gets better with every iteration :)

What do you think about rolling an Eye on player interventions in phase 1, the "onset"? Should that also result in a battle hazard? That would be consistent as all player interventions that influence either the Assault Wave, the Engagement Mood or the Threat Level bear the risk of triggering a battle hazard, while simple actions (commander actions and heroic deeds) don't.
jamesrbrown wrote:What you're saying is that it would be better to have "Intervention" as a regular option in Step 2: Tides of War (because if they needed to, players would always intervene), rather than taking away commander options in Step 3: Blood & Tears. Am I understanding you correctly?
Yes you are. That's what I wanted to say.
jamesrbrown wrote:Your group was extremely lucky in their Assault rolls! I mean, we only designed the table with a 1/3 chance in favour of the Free Peoples. If they keep this up, I'm going to be tempted to drop that to a 1/4 chance and move an '8' result into "The Line is Held" level. Especially now with the intervention option. Lol.
You know what, the best would be to run a very similar battle again with a different group of players and see what happens then. I will ask the other half of my 6 players if they would like to try this out. :D

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