Will C7 cover all the canonical peoples?

[Middle-earth Way]

Will M-eD&D cover all of the canonical peoples?

Here is a list of all the peoples which JRRT himself described or mentioned, along with their homelands, and their "Primary World" correlations (e.g. Rohirrim ~ Old Mercians). The list includes only those peoples known or supposed to exist in the late Third Age.

Many people nowadays confuse and mix in peoples invented by Iron Crown Enterprises, Decipher, or LOTR Online. But my list is straight from JRRT's book. However, the list includes some close-to-canon extrapolations, via some applied artistic and ethnological coherence, such as melding the various bits of Avarin canon.

If I missed any let me know. If you want quotes for proof, let me know, and I'll post the quotes.

Peoples:

Hobbits:
• Shire-hobbit [=1897-era Warwickshire geographically, but culturally all counties of England; for example, Yorkshire in the Hills of Scary, the West Midlands and Welsh Marches in the East Farthing and the Marish, and Warwickshire (specifically) around Hobbiton. Buckland is 1897-era Monmouthshire, a county which, until recently, was part of England and Wales at the same time. By the late Third Age, the three hobbit breeds of Harfoot, Stoor, and Fallohide are no more distinct than Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were in 1897-era England.]
• Bree-hobbit [=1897-era Buckinghamshire, the location of the real world "Brill/Bree-hill" and "Coombe"]. However, it would be fitting to represent the Bree-hobbits and Bree-men as a single Culture: "Bree-folk" which share a set of Bree-specific cultural traits, but which have two separate builds depending on whether the character is one of the Big Folk or Little Folk.
• Outsider-hobbit from the West of the World [=Remnants of other counties of 1897-era England]
• Wild-hobbit of the River Gladden [=900-era West Saxons]

Elves:
• High Elf (Noldo, or Deep Elf) from Lindon, from Rivendell, from Lorien, or from Aman
• Grey Elf (Sinda) from Lindon, from Rivendell, from Lorien, from the Woodland Realm, or from Aman (and after the War of the Ring: from Ithilien)
• Wood Elf (Nando Silvan Elf) from Lorien, from the Woodland Realm, from the Wandering Companies of Eriador, or from Aman (and after the War of the Ring: from Ithilien). These are the native elves of Eriador and of Rhovanion (along with the Penni Avari). The Wood Elves of Dol Amroth sailed to Aman. The language (to the extent it survives) is, or was, Leikvian (East-Danian), an Old Norse-flavored Elvish. In one place JRRT says the language is no longer spoken, but in another place he says that it is the main language of Thranduil's Realm. So for diversity's sake, it might as well still exist in the Woodland Realm.
• Raft-elf. The easternmost community of the Woodland Realm. Could be represented as a distinct Culture, in a similar way that the Lake-men are distinct from the Dale-men, even though Esgaroth is part of the restored Kingdom of Dale.
• Sea Elf (Teleri/Falmari) from Alqualonde, or from Tol Eressëa
• Fair Elf (Vanya) of Aman
• Green Elf of Lindon. (Cwenda Nando). Possibly merged with the Grey-elves of Lindon by the late Third Age. Or possibly not. Either way, there are families of that ancestry. (The Cwenda/West-Danian/Ossiriandic/Ossiriandeb) language is Old English-style Quendian.)
• Red Elf of the North Pole. Though depicted in the Father Christmas Letters, they are perhaps are already there in the late Third Age. They will not have "diminished" in size yet.
• Penni (Avari Silvan Elf) from Lorien, or from the Woodland Realm. The Penni and Nando are both called "Silvan/Wood Elves", and they are possibly, though not necessarily, merged by the late Third Age. They are the native elves of Rhovanion/Wilderland, along with the Nandor. (The Penni language is Gaulish-style Quendian.)
• Hill Elf (Cuind) of the West of East? (The language is Old Irish-style Quendian. I equate them with the "Hill-elves" mentioned in The Hobbit* because the Hill-men of Dunland are likewise the Old Irish-flavored Men. Though these Hill Elves would presumably live in some hills in Rhun--perhaps in the hills depicted by JRRT to the north of the Sea of Rhun. *Chapter 8: "The feasting people were Wood-elves, of course. These are not wicked folk. If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong, even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West.")
• Twilight Elf (Hwenti/Hisildi) of the Midmost Regions (Palisor) (Hwenti = Gothic-style Quendian; the Hisildi of Palisor are the ones who first spoke to Ermon and Elmir, thereby imparting the quasi-Germanic phonaesthetic flavor to the first Mannish language.)
• Windan of the the North of East? (Old Slavonic-style Quendian...the Slavic identification would be a pun on the word German word "Windisch" and Polish "Wendowie" "Wend, Slav". Could be equated to the "mountain-elves" mentioned in The Hobbit*, since the North is cold and mountainous. *Chapter 8: "The feasting people were Wood-elves, of course. [...] They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West.")
• Kindi of the South of East? (Hindi/Sanskrit-style Quendian)
• Kinn-lai of the East of East? (Chinese-style Quendian)
• Elven-knights of Aerie, or of Faerie (=Vanyar from Aman???, or some strange Elven-folk from Rhun??? or from the South-land???)

Dwarves:
• Longbeard Dwarf of the Blue Mountains, of the Grey Mountains, of the Iron Hills, or of the Lonely Mountain (after the War of the Ring: of Dwarrrowdelf, or of the Glittering Caverns)
• Firebeard Dwarf of the Blue Mountains (or other Dwarf-holds of the West)
• Broadbeam Dwarf of the Blue Mountains (or other Dwarf-holds of the West)
• Ironfist Dwarf of the East
• Stiffbeard Dwarf of the East
• Blacklock Dwarf of the East
• Stonefoot Dwarf of the East
(The Hobbit mentions "Wicked Dwarves of the East"; so at least one of these houses is under the shadow.)
(The Petty-dwarves of Beleriand are presumed extinct.)

Mannish cultures are reminiscent of 900-AD, except for those of Eriador (minus the Dunedain), which are 1897-era.
• Dunadan of the North [=remnants of an amalgam of the Arthurian, Carolingian, and Holy Roman realms]
• Bree-man [=1897-era Buckinghamshire]. However, it would be fitting to represent the Bree-hobbits and Bree-men as a single Culture: "Bree-folk" which share a set of Bree-specific cultural traits, but which have two separate builds depending on whether the character is one of the Big Folk or Little Folk.
• Man of the Hunter-folk of Eryn Vorn [=1897-era Cornishmen, speak Westron by late Third Age]
• Man of the Forsaken Inn [=remnant of 1897-era Hertfordshire, the county east of Buckinghamshire]
• Beorning of the Upper Vales [=Bernicians of Northumbria]
• Horse-lord of Rohan [=Mercians, but relationship with Gondor similar to the Goths vis-a-vis Byzantium]
• Lake-man of Esgaroth [=Geats of Lake Vättern]
• Dale-man [=Svear of Dalecarlia]
• Northman from West of Dale, or from South of Dale [=Norwegians (West) and Danes (South)]
• Woodman of Western Mirkwood, of the Middle Vales, or of the Lower Vales [Western Mirkwood=Germans: Old Saxons in the northern town, Old Franconians in the southern town; Middle Vales =Mercian remnants + newly arrived Saxons and Franks; Lower Vales = Westron-speaking Franks of West Francia. The Woodmen of the Lower Vales are the "few men" mentioned in the RotK Appendix who live near Lorien. The Appendix indicates they speak Westron, since that area is included in the description of Westron-speaking lands.]
• Man of Dorwinion [=Georgians, the land of wine and youth]
• Man of Gondor [=Byzantines]. The difference between High Men and other Gondorians is, by the late Third Age, of only slight distinction.
• Snow-man of Forochel [=Skridfinns/Saami]
• Man of the Fisher-folk of Western Enedwaith [=Picts of Ireland (Cruithne)]
• Wose of Druadan Forest [=Picts of Thrace (Agathyrsi), from the Cashel Psaltry]
• Pukel-man of Druwaith Iaur [=Picts of Gaul (Aquitani/Basques), from the Cashel Psaltry]
• Hillman of Dunland (Dunlending) [=Old Irish]
• Man of Nurn [=Armenian]
• Corsair of Umbar, or from other Havens [=Arab/Saracen of Tripoli and the other Barbary Coast kingdoms]
• Variag from Khand, or from the Wide East [=Varangian Northman from Khazaria, or from Rus]
• Man of Khand [=Khazar]
• Black Numenorean from Umbar, from Near Harad, or from Far Harad [=Copt]
• Vinith of Eastern Mirkwood, of Southern Mirkwood, of the Bight, or from Northern Rhovanion [=Western Slav: Wend/Polabian/Lusatian, Slovene, Czech/Moravian, and Polish]
• Near Southron [=Arab/Saracen]
• Easterling from the Horse Plain, or from the Kine Plain [=Hungarian/Magyar and Cuman]
• Far Southron (Troll-man, Silharrow, Elephant-lord, or Sun-dweller) [=Fur, Ethiopian, Ghanaian, and Kongolese]
• Man of Angmar (There are several different kinds of Angmarian Men; these names are not from JRRT, but designate the different Angmarian cultures: Kern (Highland Gael), Gallowglass (Norse-Gael), Redshank (Pict of Scotland), Hillman (Cumbrian of Strathclyde), or Reiver (Lowland Scot). The Hillmen of Rhudaur (=Cumbrians of Rheged) wered totally destroyed, but there would still be akin Hillmen in southwestern Angmar proper, equivalent to the Cumbrians of Strathclyde.]
• Man of the Balchoth of Southern Rhovanion [=Bulgars]. There are presumably also Balchoth in the Wide East, similar to the Volga Bulgars.
• Axe-Easterling from the Wide East [=Rus]
• Drake-man (or Drake-Easterling) from the East of East [=Chinese] In a draft of The Hobbit, JRRT referred to Were-worms who lived among the Chinese! These Men who live among the Were-worms would be "Drake-men" or "Drake-Easterlings."
• Man (or Easterling) of the Last Desert [=900 AD-era Mongols, pre-Genghis Khan]. The Last Desert is the Third Age corollary of the Gobi Desert.
• Man of “Greenland” [=Inuit] (yes, “Greenland” itself is visited by Earendil in a draft in the Book of Lost Tales. The country wouldn't actually be called "Greenland" though. Perhaps named "Scrawlings" or "Scrawny Men", the Englished equivalent of Old Norse Skraelings, their name for Inuit. The land might be named Scrawlingland.)
• Man of the South of East (the "Hindu Kush") [=Asian Indian] (In a draft of the Hobbit, the Hindu Kush mountains are mentioned!]
• Man of the New Lands (Wild Islands, Lands of the Sun, the Burnt Lands, Easternesse) [=Indigenous Americans]
• Pygmy of the Great Forest of the South [=Twa]
• Man of the Dark Land (Southland) [=Australian Aborigines, Melanesians, and other peoples of Theosophical/Anthroposophical Lemuria.]
• The other cultures of 900AD would have correlations too, except for the Romance-speaking peoples and Greek people, who are replaced by the Gondorians. I describe some of these "extended-canon" peoples here: https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya/new-peoples

Every kind of Man should be a playable PC option, even in an "all-good" company. "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" attests to there being good men throughout Rhun and Harad, for Aragorn "went alone far into the East and deep into the South, exploring the hearts of Men, both evil and good..."

Other kindreds with role-playing potential, such as awakened Kelvar and Olvar and fays:

• Ent of Fangorn
• Ent-wife of the East
• Tree-man of Far Harad
• Stone-giant
• Animals which are portrayed as speaking or understanding speech: Giant Eagle, Raven, Crow, Thrush, Horse/Pony, Cattle, Dog, Cat, Wolf, Badger, Fox, Cow, Polar Bear, Butterfly
• Fays/Spirits/Sprites: Fire-fay, Sylph (Mánir "spirits of the air" and Súruli "spirits of the winds), Oarni "spirits of the sea"/"mermaid"), Falmaríni "spirits of the sea-foam", River Spirit (River-woman, River-daughter), Flower Fay, Brownie, Pixie, Leprawn, Nermir "fays of the meadows"; Tavari/Dryad "sprites of trees and woods", Nandini "fays of the valleys", Orossi "fays of the mountains"
•The beings (Men? or otherwise) native to the countries mentioned in Bilbo's poem "Errantry", such as Thellamie and Fantasie. The "butterfly" he woos could be a sort of "Butterfly-Woman"...namely, a woman from the Middle-earth corollary of the Miao people of Southeast Asia, who view the Butterfly as their ancestral mother.

I prefer that C7 pack the book full, covering all the canonical peoples who exist in the late Third Age. Don't drag it out over a bunch of sourcebooks. Use the sourcebooks to detail new peoples, places, and details in the West-lands, in Rhun, Harad, and beyond.

And even though the Tolkien Enterprises license doesn't allow for C7 to use any name which isn't found in The Hobbit or LotR, I prefer that all the canonical peoples be included somehow - even if it's done by circumlocutions...like how Decipher referred to the seven houses of the Dwarves and the Istari by other names, since the actual names only found in The History of Middle-earth.

Did I miss any canonical peoples?

[Glorelendil]

Welcome to the C7 TOR forums, MEW. As you'll discover, this community has a fair number of Tolkien scholars.

I'd suggest you start out by reading the existing source books for The One Ring, especially the The One Ring Roleplaying Game (the core rule book) . That will give you a good sense for how C7 goes about designing a game in Middle Earth, and will probably answer a lot of your questions about which races/cultures will likely get included in the first releases.

[Middle-earth Way]

Thanks for the welcome.

I own the TOR core book. C7 does a fine job.

...However, I strongly recommend that for the D&D Middle-earth, that C7 cover the entire West-lands (and the adjacent canonical fringe of Harad and Rhun) in one book.

[Otaku-sempai]

The licensor involved in Sophisticated Games and C7's games is Middle-earth Enterprises which is a division of The Saul Zaentz Company. As such, they should only have access to material from The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It seems unlikely that they can include material that is only found outside of those two sources.

I also doubt that Tolkien intended the were-worms of the last desert to be a Mannish people any more than were his Werewolves. They might have been dragonish creatures with man-like intelligence.

[Curulon]

I prefer that C7 pack the book full, covering all the canonical peoples who exist in the late Third Age. Don't drag it out over a bunch of sourcebooks. Use the sourcebooks to detail new peoples, places, and details in the West-lands, in Rhun, Harad, and beyond.

I dont want to be mean but it is not going to happen. First because a man is a man, a elf is an elf and a dwarf is a dwarf. After that, the fluff you put on your character is up to you. There no reason to make mechanical distinction between all the culture you named. Second, Cubicle 7 want your money so you can be pretty sure they will drag the stuff between various suppléments.

While I agree there is little reason to have all of those peoples he mentioned, we already have mechanical distinctions between different types of Men and Elves, and even Hobbits and presumably Dwarves, as well, with Erebor coming. Not to mention the Cultures in the Adventurer's Companion. The majority of the playable cultures are Men and they are all mechanically different. They have to be, because you're not playing a Race like in other games, you're playing a Culture.

[Middle-earth Way]

I also doubt that Tolkien intended the were-worms of the last desert to be a Mannish people any more than were his Werewolves. They might have been dragonish creatures with man-like intelligence.

I'm not saying the Were-worms are a Mannish folk. I agree that the Were-worms would be a kind of were-dragon spirit.

In two earlier drafts, JRRT says:
"Great Desert of Gobi and fight the Wild Wire worms of the Chinese"
"the last desert in the East and fight the Wild Wireworms of the Chinese"

In the published text he says:
"the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

So there are two kinds of beings: Were-worms and "Chinese". The Were-worms are monsters. The "Chinese" are Men. I'm simply offering a name for these "Chinese" Men...namely, "Worm-Easterlings" or "Worm-men."

[Middle-earth Way]

The licensor involved in Sophisticated Games and C7's games is Middle-earth Enterprises which is a division of The Saul Zaentz Company. As such, they should only have access to material from The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It seems unlikely that they can include material that is only found outside of those two sources.

That was also the case for Decipher's LotR RPG, but they still included references to the Seven Houses of the Dwarves and the Istari. Decipher just used euphemisms or circumlocutions: Decipher invented other names for the Seven Houses (presumably these are nicknames/synonyms, and the "canonical" JRRT names for the Seven Houses still exist just "off-screen"). Decipher called the Istari something like "the kindred from beyond the Sea."

This could be done with all the examples I give.

For example, the Red Elves could be called "Crimson Elves of the North Pole." And if there is a Green Elf remnant in Lindon they could be called "Verdant Elves of Lindon" or "Singing Elves of Lindon."

[Otaku-sempai]

I don't see how things taken from early drafts, such as references to China and the Gobi Desert, that did not end up in the published text are at all relevant. In any case, I put it to you that "Worm-Easterlings" and "Worm-men" are terrible names--just awful. What I can see is borrowing from the language of Manchurian China for person and place-names for the distant East; and perhaps borrowing from Slavic or Mongolian for other regions of Rhûn.

That was also the case for Decipher's LotR RPG, but they still included references to the Seven Houses of the Dwarves and the Istari. Decipher just used euphemisms or circumlocutions: Decipher invented other names for the Seven Houses (presumably these are nicknames/synonyms, and the "canonical" JRRT names for the Seven Houses still exist just "off-screen"). Decipher called the Istari something like "the kindred from beyond the Sea."

Iron Crown did much the same with MERP, although this was before much of HOME was even published. However, I would guess that for the time being, C7 is going to concentrate on the regions and peoples that were directly involved in the Quest of Erebor, the Battle of Five Armies and the War of the Ring. The further they get away from that, the more likely they are to have potential problems with the Tolkien Estate and their lawyers. I think, for myself, I would keep anything originating from Tolkien's Father Christmas Letters out of the mix.

[Glorelendil]

For example, the Red Elves could be called "Crimson Elves of the North Pole."

I hear they are very jolly. And they make toys.

[Majestic]

For example, the Red Elves could be called "Crimson Elves of the North Pole."

I hear they are very jolly. And they make toys.

Yes, though Buddy the Elf wears green instead of red.