So my players killed Viglar

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Majestic
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Majestic » Tue May 24, 2016 10:46 pm

Even though accidental, I'd classify it as a misdeed and award 1 Shadow point each (for anyone that contributed to the death).

Though I know it's easy to forget, ordinarily the LM should be warning the player that they're about to commit a misdeed. In this case, it's hardly something that can be done easily (it's tough to pause the game in the middle of conflict to say "You know, if you do just happen to kill him..."). Still, the point is that as LMs we should try to warn the players up front, when it's possible to do so.
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Summerhawk
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Summerhawk » Wed May 25, 2016 3:44 am

Majestic wrote:Even though accidental, I'd classify it as a misdeed and award 1 Shadow point each (for anyone that contributed to the death).

Though I know it's easy to forget, ordinarily the LM should be warning the player that they're about to commit a misdeed. In this case, it's hardly something that can be done easily (it's tough to pause the game in the middle of conflict to say "You know, if you do just happen to kill him..."). Still, the point is that as LMs we should try to warn the players up front, when it's possible to do so.

As I said in my original post, the decision to fight to kill was made by a player with full knowledge of the danger. It was a character choice made by an informed player. I agree that there should be some shadow, though I'd argue it's cause is that they know their actions will have severe consequences rather than because what they did was exactly a misdeed.

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T.S. Luikart
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by T.S. Luikart » Wed May 25, 2016 4:01 pm

Going by your description, Summerhawk - I wouldn't label it as a Misdeed either. But 1 Shadow point for Anguish sounds about right.
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Valarian
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Valarian » Wed May 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Wait for the anguish until something happens as a result of the death of Viglar. Let the players come across the aftermath of a vengeance raid or something, and relaise that this was because of their actions.
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Summerhawk
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Summerhawk » Thu May 26, 2016 3:12 pm

Anguish, that's what I was looking for. Also I like the idea of waiting until they begin to see the consequences. It allows it to resonate. Ok, so how about this: The Ranger character understood the danger and was trying to avoid killing Viglar when this happened. Would it make sense to let her experience the anguish immediately, and then let it hit the others individually as the consequences of their actions come home to them and their folk, or would you save it and give it all to the party at once. I like the idea of the 'one-at-a-time' approach because it spreads out the realization and gives each character a more individual story moment, but at the same time I could see how the players who were hit earlier might feel put upon. Thoughts?

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Robin Smallburrow
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Robin Smallburrow » Fri May 27, 2016 4:58 am

My advice is to discuss these options with your players- you can use this as an opportunity to go over the RAW for Anguish with your players

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Summerhawk
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Re: So my players killed Viglar

Post by Summerhawk » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:04 pm

I thought you might like to know how this ended up falling out.

First, the Players found Viglar's daughter Aestid in hiding in the house that Viglar had surrounded in his effort to take her back to her would-be husband. In the end, the players surrendered Aestid to her father and fiancee to avoid bloodshed, and managed to negotiate a mediation of their dispute with Viglar in the presence of Beorn and some of the other significant figures of the norther Vales. This was achieved by excellent rolling and the fact that they thought ahead and had arranged Viglar's body in as stately a manner as they were able, and of course the fact that they turned over Aestid.

I had done some research into weregild (before discovering there was a handy chart in my Laketown book) and set Viglars weregild at 1200 schillings (according to the laws of Pepin the Short). As it happens, that's exactly the cost in the Laketown book, and equals 60 treasure. The players could not afford this by far and were not able to find a way to negotiate the price down. So in the end they came up with a rather novel solution as follows.
1. They handed over all their treasure to Viglar in partial payment.
2. In order to prevent Beorn from appearing complicit (since they were on an errand for him when this happened), they insisted that Beorn impose a banishment from his lands until they were able to pay the remainder of the Weregild.
3. With some good rolls, I decided Viglund would accept the partial payment and the embarrassment of his rival (who had to exile some of his allies), and let the matter rest (or seem to at least).

Of course Viglund being cruel and vengeful according to his entry in the books, I still intend him to do what he can to harm the heroes. I'm nearing the year for Murder in Laketown, and I think I may give Viglund a connection to Valdis in order to go after our Barding companion. Additionally, Viglund will start allowing Wild Men and orc bands to occasionally cross his lands to attack other friends of our company, probably including the Easterly Inn at some point.

Anyway, thanks for all the great suggestions, folks. It was a real help.

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