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Valarian wrote:Not to mention the North Farthing, where Sam's cousin Halfast Gamgee saw a walking tree-giant. As discussed in the Green Dragon (The Shadow of the Past).

I never bought into the idea that that was either an Ent or a Huorn. I think that Sam's cousin was just describing the creature's tree-like height.

Otaku-sempai wrote:

cuthalion wrote:Well the problem isn't the species--it's the history of the region. I think the Greenwood is actually the younger forest if I'm remembering rightly, and, either way, doesn't have huorns/ents attributed to it in any of Tolkien's works. Happy to stand corrected here.

No, I think that both the Greenwood and the Old Forest are just as ancient as Fangorn. They are all remnants of the great, ancient forest that stretched from Rhovanion to the Blue Mountains.

Do you have a source for that? That's the part I'm unclear on. It's been a while since I read the silmarilion, which I feel like contains the answer.

Will have to do a bit of research when I get home.

cuthalion wrote:Do you have a source for that? That's the part I'm unclear on. It's been a while since I read the silmarilion, which I feel like contains the answer.

Will have to do a bit of research when I get home.

You shouldn't need much research. Just go to The Two Towers, just a few pages into the chapter "Treebeard":

'Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a time from here to the Mountains of Lune, and this was just the East End.

'Those were the broad days! Time was when I could walk and sing all day and hear no more than the echo of my own voice in the hollow hills. The woods were like the woods of Lothlórien, only thicker, stronger, younger. And the smell of the air! I used to spend a week just breathing!'

Right, I recall that, and other similar comments. None of them explicitly talk about Mirkwood being connected to it--and there seems to be another theme in the books that keeps the lore/ecology/culture of Mirkwood separate. It's that seperation/distinction that I'm looking for more info on. I don't have an Atlas of Middle Earth, but I wonder what fonstad shows in her First/Second age maps. I've seen them but don't remember.

Edit: oh and of course, the Anduin flows between them, creating a natural boundary, which might well explain some ecological differences. I guess I'm asking more in the spirit of, how do we keep things interesting/complicated, not how do we simplify them.

cuthalion wrote:Right, I recall that, and other similar comments. None of them explicitly talk about Mirkwood being connected to it--and there seems to be another theme in the books that keeps the lore/ecology/culture of Mirkwood separate. It's that seperation/distinction that I'm looking for more info on. I don't have an Atlas of Middle Earth, but I wonder what fonstad shows in her First/Second age maps. I've seen them but don't remember.

Edit: oh and of course, the Anduin flows between them, creating a natural boundary, which might well explain some ecological differences. I guess I'm asking more in the spirit of, how do we keep things interesting/complicated, not how do we simplify them.

Ask and ye shall receive:



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As you point out, the proto-Greenwood is a bit isolated by the presence of the Anduin. just as the rest of the great forest is divided by the Misty Mountains.

Great, that's helpful. Thanks for posting it.

As you point out, the proto-Greenwood is a bit isolated by the presence of the Anduin. just as the rest of the great forest is divided by the Misty Mountains.

. . . Well, except for the will-be-gap of Rohan tho right?

Sorry for splitting hairs. I think something interesting could come out of considering why Mirkwood is different. Will report back if I turn up anything interesting.