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Wbweather wrote:Gandalf may have visited Moria in the height of its glory and not needed to open the western gate. Since 1000 years have past since it fell, it would make sense that he might struggle remembering the way through as he seems to do in the books.

No, Gandalf makes it clear that he entered Moria in search of the missing Thráin, so it had to be after TA 2845 and might even had been after his investigation of Dol Guldur five years later. It also had to have been before Gandalf's encounter with Thorin in Bree in March of 2941.

'In the ruins of the Dwarves, a dwarf's head will be less easy to bewilder than Elves or Men or Hobbits. Yet it will not be the first time that I have been to Moria. I sought there long for Thráin son of Thrór after he was lost. I passed through, and I came out again alive!'

Gandalf gives us no reason to think that he ever visited Khazad-dûm in the days when Durin's Folk still dwelt there. But even if he had--as you point out--that would have been over one thousand years before the War of the Ring.

Okay. I had forgotten that quote. Still though, I can imagine Tharkûn visiting the halls of Khazad-dûm at some point in the 980 years he was in Middle-earth before the coming of Durin's Bane. I have always imagined him remembering how the city once looked as the fellowship made their way through the darkness of Moria. But you are right. There is no reason to assume he had been before it fell.

To continue our sidebar about Gandalf a bit longer: if he traveled to Moria in search of Thráin then I expect that he started at the East-gate, as Thráin went missing under the eaves of Mirkwood, east of the Misty Mountains. If he had originally traveled east-to-west through the mines then that might have messed a bit with his mental map.

Yep. It's very clear in the source material... everyone's outside the Gates of Moria and getting upset that Gandalf doesn't know how to open the doors. He remarks that he came in the other Gate and that the West Gate(s) opened from the inside at a touch of his hand.

Aragorn is much less certain, though obviously he didn't know the riddle either (or was trolling Gandalf to see if he'd give up and go a different way).

zedturtle wrote:Aragorn is much less certain, though obviously he didn't know the riddle either (or was trolling Gandalf to see if he'd give up and go a different way).

The timing and purpose of Aragorn's previous visit is uncertain. However, he stated himself that he entered through the Dimrill Gate (the East-gate). Aragorn might have also left the same way, not passing through the length of Moria.