"Biting Dart" wording

[Glorelendil]

Well, I would agree that IF the enchanted quality on a spear only functioned on a ranged use (i.e., when the spear were thrown) then it would be a lame option for a given character's magical treasure index.

But there are other enchanted qualities that are less effective at "low levels", e.g. all the ones that key off Valour. E.g., Dwarven Superior Fell is actually worse at Valour 1 than regular Fell is.

[Dunheved]

Very good point & well made Glorelendil. Perhaps when planning an Index it is therefore important to decide how the 'fated development' of a PC should be matched to the objects in the Index. This looks like the general advice on page 95 of Rivendell about constructing an Index is particularly important for a LM: i.e. tailoring it to a specific character is discussed.

Those author guys seem to have got this covered again - but you did say something like this earlier in the thread!

So I come towards a conclusion that if I have a highly skilled ranged weapons person, THEN a magical weapon might have Biting Dart and that (as you make the case) other Qualities have drawbacks that are not apparent at first reading, so I'd better think carefully about designing those as well.

Thanks.

Has anyone got examples of their Objects that they have used in play that worked well?

[Blubbo Baggins]

Again, if you have the skill (3 vs. very low Parry, 4 vs. Parry up to 7, 5 vs. anything) it's not a disadvantage. Yes, you are somewhat less likely to hit, but you average a lot more damage and Pierces.

But my "dream set-up" no longer includes Foe-Slaying. Because of the two chances to Pierce, reducing Edge gives diminishing returns. I mean, it wouldn't make anything worse, but I think I'd want higher Injury rather than lower Edge. So Biting Dart, Runes of Victory, and Fell (Superior Fell is not available for Elven make.)

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. Foe-Slaying doesn't make a Biting Dart weapon worse, but Biting Dart can make a Foe-Slaying weapon worse (at least, in terms of Pierce probability) against high TNs. Strange but true. I can elaborate if anybody is skeptical.

NOW YOU CAN! (See Erebor, for Dwarven Weapons of Khazad-dum Origin! But, you'd have to switch Runes of Victory to a regular Quality because you can only have 2 Enchanted Qualities with Khazad-dum weapons...)

[Glorelendil]

Update: my Dunlending witch-doctor Aobh just lucked out in a minor hoard: Gandalf and then two Tengwars (from only three dice!). Guess what she found? Yup...a spear with Biting Dart and Runes of Victory. "Dagnir Glamoth". Not entirely coincidental, given that the LM is zedturtle. I'm still waiting on a ruling of whether the bonus applies in close combat.

Too bad Aobh thinks Elves are demons.

I'm giddy with excitement about the storytelling possibilities here....

EDIT: Turns out not to have mattered this time, but it just occurred to me that Ill Omen could totally be abused here.

On a success, you receive 1 bonus Success die to spend on any roll to be made in the course of the following day; you receive 2 bonus Success dice on a great success, and 3 dice on an extraordinary success.

Note the phrasing: "on any roll". Ill Omen just keeps getting better.

[Glorelendil]

Some numbers on Biting Dart + Runes of Victory on a spear. Assumes Body of 3 (which is what my Dunlending has).
In each pair of numbers the first is just Runes of Victory, the second is with Biting Dart.

Skill 2
Notice that at TN:10 (only possible if the spear can be used in close combat) Biting Dart offers a solid advantage, but that it already nearly disappears by TN:14. Forward stance required!

Code: Select all

TN: 10:
Damage: 5.0 / 8.2
Pierce: 25% / 41%

TN: 14:
Damage: 3.2 / 3.2
Pierce: 23% / 23%

TN: 18:
Damage: 1.6 / 0.8
Pierce: 14% / 7%

Skill 3
Now we're cookin'. Significant advantage at TN 14, but becomes a disadvantage by TN 18.

Code: Select all

TN: 10:
Damage: 6.2 / 11.9
Pierce: 25% / 47%

TN: 14:
Damage: 5.2 / 7.9
Pierce: 25% / 38%

TN: 18:
Damage: 3.3 / 3.2
Pierce: 22% / 21%

Skill 4
Yowza. Now those are some numbers! (The average for Pierces includes some attacks producing two Pierces.)

Code: Select all

TN: 10:
Damage: 6.9 / 13.7
Pierce: 25% / 49%

TN: 14:
Damage: 6.5 / 12.0
Pierce: 25% / 46%

TN: 18:
Damage: 5.3 / 7.7
Pierce: 24% / 35%

Bear in mind, of course, that Biting Dart is a Bane ability, so this only pertains when it's a Bane adversary. Also, presumably in the absence of Biting Dart there would be some other quality in its place, so it's not totally fair to compare it to the base case.

EDIT: Ran it again with 10x as many iterations and more precision on the Pierce numbers.

[Falenthal]

Zed, you need to come up with a situation in game where Aobh has to sacrifice her new spear for the sake of the Free People.
Then sit back, relax, and see the world fall to pieces...

[Glorelendil]

Zed, you need to come up with a situation in game where Aobh has to sacrifice her new spear for the sake of the Free People.
Then sit back, relax, and see the world fall to pieces...

Reminds me of the joke that ends: "What did the doctor say?" "He says you're gonna die."

[zedturtle]

It is... fascinating... how things work out, sometimes, isn't it?

— • —

Fal... I don't think I'll do that, exactly. I think we will have some fun with it. For example, Glor doesn't know what the Bane creature is. Neither does Aobh. And that's okay... I figure it's going to be a 'live and learn' experience... as long as she lives through it.

[Glorelendil]

It is... fascinating... how things work out, sometimes, isn't it?

— • —

Fal... I don't think I'll do that, exactly. I think we will have some fun with it. For example, Glor doesn't know what the Bane creature is. Neither does Aobh. And that's okay... I figure it's going to be a 'live and learn' experience... as long as she lives through it.

It's Dunlendings, isn't it?

Is it currently glowing? Brightly? That would be bad...

(The irony is that I wasn't planning to really invest in this character's combat skills, but now I pretty much HAVE to bump Spear up.)

[Majestic]

I've given the Biting Dark quality to an enchanted spear of one of my players. What's fun is that the mechanic very much matches the 'multiple attack' method of the supers game we play, where one miss causes all to miss. Therefore we're quite used to it (and it has a built-in balance as well).

I'm wondering if I should even allow him to use this feature in close combat. The weapon qualifies as a ranged weapon, but it doesn't say that the feature only works when using it that way.