"Biting Dart" wording

[Glorelendil]

Biting Dart
Craftsmanship: Elven
Item: Ranged weapon
Special: Bane

When you attack a Bane creature using a ranged weapon possessing this virtue you must make two separate attack rolls. If you hit your target with both rolls, you inflict damage for both attack rolls. However, your attack goes astray entirely if even only one roll misses.

Could it be a spear? Or is that abiding by letter, not spirit? Because if it's a spear it could also have close-combat enchanted qualities.

(Really nice synergy with Runes of Victory and Foe-Slaying.)

[Falenthal]

Is a spear a "ranged weapon" or a melee weapon that can be thrown?

[Falenthal]

P.126 of the Revised Books says: "Spears and bows are ranged weapons capable of striking...". Under the Thrown and Ranged Weapons title.

So, I guess Spears can have Biting Dart on them.

[zedturtle]

I think I'm okay with it, especially as it's explicitly one chance in a battle (you're not likely to retrieve the magic spear and throw it again) and lowering the Edge of a spear is of limited utility when the Injury is 14 anyways.

[Glorelendil]

I think I'm okay with it, especially as it's explicitly one chance in a battle (you're not likely to retrieve the magic spear and throw it again) and lowering the Edge of a spear is of limited utility when the Injury is 14 anyways.

But nowhere does it say you have to make a ranged attack; just that it can only go on a ranged weapon. Which means (if one were to be all rules-lawyerly) that you could make melee attacks with the spear and get the benefit.

[zedturtle]

Okay, then I have a question:

If you have a bow or arrows (not really clear which would have the property) and one was to hold said Biting Dart in hand and attack as a close combat weapon, would you apply the Enchanted Quality? In other words, can I go all movie-Legolas and stab a dude in the eye with a magic arrow?

If yes, then I suppose you could use the Biting Spear as a close combat weapon too.

But if not (and I think this is the more reasonable/intended answer), then you've got to throw the Biting Spear in order to get the benefit. I'd probably fluff it as a being exceptionally lightweight and more likely to fly true than a regular spear.

[Earendil]

I definitely agree with zedturtle here: it's fine to apply Biting Dart to a spear, but it would only have its effect if you're throwing it. If you're using it as a melee weapon, then you're not using it as a ranged weapon, and therefore a benefit that explicitly applies only to ranged weapons should not apply.

[Glorelendil]

Well, I think it would be the bow, not the arrows, that would get the enchantment. So really you'd want to ask if using the bow as a melee weapon would still grant the enchantment. And here the difference is that with a spear you essentially "use it the same way" whether ranged or melee (that is, you poke your victim with the pointy end) whereas with the bow the two uses are entirely different.

In any event, if you used a bow as a club it would count as an improvised weapon, which uses the Dagger skill, which means you'd have to roll two successful attacks with likely your worst skill. So actually trying to use a bow this way would be a terrible idea.

As far as I can tell RAW doesn't prevent a Spear from having this enchanted quality; the question is whether that's an oversight from the author's and thus against the spirit of the rules, or in fact a very subtle intended effect. Given their track record I wouldn't be surprised if it were the latter.

In fact, the quality is less beneficial to spears than to bows: the extra damage works out to be identical, but with pierces the increase is proportionally less for spears than it is for bows.

[Dunheved]

Am I missing something here?

There is no change in the Edge value of the missile is there ?

I think I'm okay with it, especially as it's explicitly one chance in a battle (you're not likely to retrieve the magic spear and throw it again) and lowering the Edge of a spear is of limited utility when the Injury is 14 anyways.

Frankly, this particular Enchanted Quality strikes me as so poor that it is almost effectively cursed! I'd be very reluctant to include/design it for an Index: unless the PC has quite a good chance of striking the target (i.e. getting the TN for a ranged attack). Otherwise they are going to miss more times than not. (You need better than a 70% chance of making the TN or else you will miss 51% or more times.)

[zedturtle]

I was considering the entire package that Glorelendil had listed: Biting Dart, Runes of Victory and Foe-Slaying. The last one is where the Edge consideration comes from.

And, yes, it is a tricky one to pull off. But Runes of Victory helps out with that, significantly increasing your odds.