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zedturtle wrote:Well then the example text on the next page is wrong, because the smith becomes Driven after rolling the Gandalf and improving the weapon's damage value. So there's some room for interpretation.

Good point Zed. Savior the Stout never becomes Driven but a Gandalf does allow him to increase his damage by one. Would multiple Gandalf's allow for multiple increases? I wonder how this will work in play compared to the Elven-Smithing Undertaking. At first glance it appears that the Dwarves have an advantage... do the limitations equalize it?

It's only the first Gandalf that allows a stat increase.

Dwarves are slower (once the High Elf is fully upgraded) and limited to doing only one work ever in their lifetime. I think it's reasonably balanced.

zedturtle wrote:It's only the first Gandalf that allows a stat increase.

Dwarves are slower (once the High Elf is fully upgraded) and limited to doing only one work ever in their lifetime. I think it's reasonably balanced.

Elves can also (unless I'm reading it horribly wrong) enchant their friends' weapons.

Glorelendil wrote:

zedturtle wrote:It's only the first Gandalf that allows a stat increase.

Dwarves are slower (once the High Elf is fully upgraded) and limited to doing only one work ever in their lifetime. I think it's reasonably balanced.

Elves can also (unless I'm reading it horribly wrong) enchant their friends' weapons.

Right. And (in theory) a dwarf could craft a master-work weapon for his friend (say an Elf) and then give it away. But that might not be too likely...

Considering the pros and cons of both, I think they're pretty balanced against one another... Just my view though.

Elven: No risk, less successes needed, and can be done multiple times, though benefit is less and it requires a virtue.
Dwarven: Risky, more successes needed, can be done only once, greater benefit, only requires a trait and common skill.

zedturtle wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:

zedturtle wrote:It's only the first Gandalf that allows a stat increase.

Dwarves are slower (once the High Elf is fully upgraded) and limited to doing only one work ever in their lifetime. I think it's reasonably balanced.

Elves can also (unless I'm reading it horribly wrong) enchant their friends' weapons.

Right. And (in theory) a dwarf could craft a master-work weapon for his friend (say an Elf) and then give it away. But that might not be too likely...

Ok, but I meant that there's a reason why the ability to enchant multiple weapons is useful. That is, why the Noldor ability is super cool but in a different way than Dwarven-smithing.

Personally I think that the fact that elven smithing can be repeated and the dwarven smithing can only be done once is the major balancing factor.
IF the dwarf rolls a Gandalf, however, it is fair to say that the elf will actually spend more time creating a weaker weapon as he will need to meet 6 checks twice for a total of 12 to achieve something similar to that of the dwarf. Also the benefits of the elven smith increasing the attack is only permanent if the weapon skill is not increased. On the flip side, they can enchant that bonus to +2.
It would be interesting to see the two in a game together to see if one provides more benefit in the long term than the other.

I wonder if you could give the dwarven masterwork to a smith of Eregion for improvement. I mean, the description of the Smith says no but this isnt one of the 'lost masterpieces', its a recent piece, limited in power.

...I'd actually say yes. If the Free Peoples are willing to cooperate that much in the first place, the result deserves to be awesome.

I hope that the text is revised before print. As it stands the rule and the example seem contradictory. The rule seems to state that the stat increase is a potential benefit of being Driven. The example seems to show that it is available to any Dwarf rolling a Gandalf.

Both seem reasonable interpretations, although I am inclined to believe that the example is correct.