Common and Westron, are the same and Adunaic is the basis for Westron?
How closely related is Westron( common) to the tongue of the Northmen ( including the Rohirrim)?
IIRC the language of Rohan was like Old English compared to Modern English or was the difference not so pronounced( no pun intended) If it were it seems like a pretty big gap at least to me as when I listen to Old English I am can only gather a few words here and there.
However, when I sometimes listen to a Scottish, Northern English, or New Zealand show it takes me several minutes for my ear to adjust then I can follow along.
So perhaps it is more like an ear adjustment for the characters or does one need a learn another language skill.
I know in the books the Hobbits spoke to everyone and they seemed ok, but was it that they people they spoke with people who happened to be more learned. Would a regular farmer from Rohan have been so easy to converse with?
What about the languages of the men of Wilderland? I assume they are close enough to each other and Rohirric that it would be just like listening to someone with a thick regional accent.
Language question
Re: Language question
I think the biggest clue to us is Théoden, especially as he is somewhat a scholar (for a king of Mark since he knows at least three languages... Sindarin, Rohirric and Westron). It's fairly certain that he's speaking Westron most of the time, and especially in the company of the Fellowship. So when he says Holbytlan, that's clearly a Rohirric word and also fairly clearly close to Hobbit (probably coming from the same root in Adûnaic). So Rohirric, Westron and Dalish are all derived from Adûnaic. Dalish and Rohirric are probably closer together than Westron, maybe on the order of Portuguese and Spanish, or Norwegian and Swedish. Westron is carried throughout the lands by dwarves, and thus the Westron spoken by the Hobbits is manageable by the other cultures that they meet (though, of course, the Hobbits have funny accents and treat the language very differently, especially in regards to pronoun usage).Southron Loremaster wrote:Common and Westron, are the same and Adunaic is the basis for Westron?
How closely related is Westron( common) to the tongue of the Northmen ( including the Rohirrim)?
IIRC the language of Rohan was like Old English compared to Modern English or was the difference not so pronounced( no pun intended) If it were it seems like a pretty big gap at least to me as when I listen to Old English I am can only gather a few words here and there.
However, when I sometimes listen to a Scottish, Northern English, or New Zealand show it takes me several minutes for my ear to adjust then I can follow along.
So perhaps it is more like an ear adjustment for the characters or does one need a learn another language skill.
I know in the books the Hobbits spoke to everyone and they seemed ok, but was it that they people they spoke with people who happened to be more learned. Would a regular farmer from Rohan have been so easy to converse with?
What about the languages of the men of Wilderland? I assume they are close enough to each other and Rohirric that it would be just like listening to someone with a thick regional accent.
But, no, I don't think that the difference between Westron and Rohirric is one of just accent; otherwise Aragorn would not need to translate 'The Horse and The Rider' for his companions after singing it in Rohirric.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.
This space intentionally blank.
This space intentionally blank.
Re: Language question
Thanks for your reply.
-
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:45 am
- Location: Lackawanna, NY
Re: Language question
Appendix F to The Lord of the Rings, "The Languages and Peoples of the Third Age," might be helpful here. I'll include some brief excerpts:
And a page later:The Westron was a Mannish speech, though enriched and softened under Elvish influence. It was in origin the language of those whom the Eldar called the Atani or Edain, 'Fathers of Men', being especially the people of the Three Houses of the Elf-friends who came west into Beleriand in the First Age, and aided the Eldar in the War of the Great Jewels against the Dark Power of the North.
I hope that this is helpful.Most of the Men of the northern regions of the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adûnaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the peoples of the upper vales of Anduin: the Beornings, and the Woodmen of Western Mirkwood; and further north and east the Men of the Long Lake and of Dale. From the lands between the Gladden and the Carrock came the folk that were known in Gondor as the Rohirrim, Masters of Horses. They still spoke their ancestral tongue, and gave new names in it to nearly all the places in their new country; and they called themselves the Eorlings, or the Men of the Riddermark. But the lords of that people used the Common Speech freely, and spoke it nobly after the manner of their allies in Gondor; for in Gondor whence it came the Westron kept still a more gracious and antique style.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."
Re: Language question
Thanks Otaku-Sempai. Totally, rolled a Sauron on my lore test to check the appendix.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Wyrmling and 4 guests