forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just thought I'd post my thoughts on this. First of all Adventures in Middle-Earth has me concerned. I've already seen in other forums how some people have said they've house ruled The One Ring to make it more like 5e. My main fear is that when AiME is released, that there will be a mass exodus of TOR players, and if they stop buy TOR products, that could kill the whole line. Now I'm aware that The One Ring wasn't the first Tolkien licensed RPG, or even the second (that would be MERP and Decipher's LOTR RPG, respectively). However from what I've seen on reviews and from the awards, it seems to be consensus that it's the best. I already have the updated core rulebook as a PDF file, and I also bought the dice. However, I live out in the sticks in Abilene Kansas and the nearest RPG groups seem to be Topeka or Kansas City, in other words a one hour drive for Topeka, and and at least a two hour drive for Kansas City. Problem is though, I still only have my permit and as such I don't even own a vehicle. Long story short, and to wrap this up, I would hate it if a smaller but very good RPG which has been building up its fanbase for five years now were to get swallowed up because a few D&D 5e fans decided that now that there's another product out there, to just drop TOR like a hot potato. Sorry if that was a little long. Anyone feel similarly?

First: you can join skype or google hanglout-based RPGs of TOPR. I know there are quite a few people around here that do that, so there is hope for you to play TOR without much problem, I would say. You still have quite a lot of masterial to play through (Mirkwood is the best campaign/ saga supplement ever besides the great Pendragon saga IMO) so you can still take fiull advantage of the game regardless of what happens.

Second: wait. AiME might be good, or it might be dungeons and dragons in ME. In either case it does not need to be a huge problem. TOR and AiME might not appeal to the same type of player, so they might get different audiences here. If you go orc hunting as a default target in TOR your life will be short.

Right now, I would say that wait, and enjoy the greatness and beauty of the Wilderland.

Cheers,
Xavi

Glorfindel18 wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just thought I'd post my thoughts on this. First of all Adventures in Middle-Earth has me concerned. I've already seen in other forums how some people have said they've house ruled The One Ring to make it more like 5e. My main fear is that when AiME is released, that there will be a mass exodus of TOR players, and if they stop buy TOR products, that could kill the whole line. Now I'm aware that The One Ring wasn't the first Tolkien licensed RPG, or even the second (that would be MERP and Decipher's LOTR RPG, respectively). However from what I've seen on reviews and from the awards, it seems to be consensus that it's the best. I already have the updated core rulebook as a PDF file, and I also bought the dice. However, I live out in the sticks in Abilene Kansas and the nearest RPG groups seem to be Topeka or Kansas City, in other words a one hour drive for Topeka, and and at least a two hour drive for Kansas City. Problem is though, I still only have my permit and as such I don't even own a vehicle. Long story short, and to wrap this up, I would hate it if a smaller but very good RPG which has been building up its fanbase for five years now were to get swallowed up because a few D&D 5e fans decided that now that there's another product out there, to just drop TOR like a hot potato. Sorry if that was a little long. Anyone feel similarly?

I'm making up numbers here, but let's say that for every TOR player there are 250 D&D 5e Players out there.

Once AiMe launches, suppose that:
1/25 D&D players plays it
1 in 10 of those players is introduced to TOR because of it
1 in 10 TOR players switches to AiMe

With those (purely imaginary) numbers, the TOR population grows by 90%, and that is still only 1/5 of the AiMe population. So C7 is selling approximately seven times as many books. True, most of them are AiMe books, but a LOT of the development cost is shared, and with reduced development costs and nearly twice the market there is no reason to expect they would drop the TOR line.

In other words, anything that makes the C7 Middle Earth line more appealing and more inclusive is going to be awesome for TOR fans.

/rosecoloredglasses

Glorfindel18 wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just thought I'd post my thoughts on this. First of all Adventures in Middle-Earth has me concerned. I've already seen in other forums how some people have said they've house ruled The One Ring to make it more like 5e. My main fear is that when AiME is released, that there will be a mass exodus of TOR players, and if they stop buy TOR products, that could kill the whole line. Now I'm aware that The One Ring wasn't the first Tolkien licensed RPG, or even the second (that would be MERP and Decipher's LOTR RPG, respectively). However from what I've seen on reviews and from the awards, it seems to be consensus that it's the best. I already have the updated core rulebook as a PDF file, and I also bought the dice. However, I live out in the sticks in Abilene Kansas and the nearest RPG groups seem to be Topeka or Kansas City, in other words a one hour drive for Topeka, and and at least a two hour drive for Kansas City. Problem is though, I still only have my permit and as such I don't even own a vehicle. Long story short, and to wrap this up, I would hate it if a smaller but very good RPG which has been building up its fanbase for five years now were to get swallowed up because a few D&D 5e fans decided that now that there's another product out there, to just drop TOR like a hot potato. Sorry if that was a little long. Anyone feel similarly?

Welcome Glorfindel18! I hope you have some luck finding other players either IRL or online. As far as your concerns for TOR vs AiMe, they're understandable but I'm not too worried. TOR has a great lead in any head-to-head competition.

Also, I think that the best point of comparison are other passion products, like Open Source software. Not only because the developers love TOR (they do) but also because those projects often have a development branch and a stable release branch. TOR is the development branch (in my mental model) it's where the new stuff happens and gets modelled in a well-known and well-tested system. Then C7 learns from TOR and releases things for AiMe that leverage all the work done on the TOR prodcts but presented for folks who's choice of "OS"' is 5th Edition. That means that continued TOR development is necessary for future AiMe success and I think that makes everyone happy.

Thanks for the responses. I guess I never thought of it that way. I guess in that sense it benefits both camps. Those people who like D&D and enjoy Tolkien but aren't fans of TOR can play AIME, and those who play it but want a different flavor can try TOR. Cool. I still think if D&D can evolve and strive for improvements through new editions, so can TOR. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I still think there are some gray areas that aren't covered as of yet in the current edition.

Glorfindel18 wrote:Thanks for the responses. I guess I never thought of it that way. I guess in that sense it benefits both camps. Those people who like D&D and enjoy Tolkien but aren't fans of TOR can play AIME, and those who play it but want a different flavor can try TOR. Cool. I still think if D&D can evolve and strive for improvements through new editions, so can TOR. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I still think there are some gray areas that aren't covered as of yet in the current edition.

Interesting! Is there anything particular that you have in mind?

Of course, rules for mounted combat was a big one and now finally answered in Horse-lords.

It's also my understanding that Jon and Francesco are deep in development discussions for dual-wielding two-weapon fighting. [[ Sorry, long running joke, as you probably know. ]]

I imagine that a lot of the gray areas will be covered in the Adventurer's Companion and whatever cultural sections we get further on... Gondor being a big one, of course.

Well, one of the gray areas I was talking about was Moria. But the big one is Mordor. I wonder if a supplement is published about the Black Land, if going there would be considered a death wish.

Glorfindel18 wrote:Well, one of the gray areas I was talking about was Moria. But the big one is Mordor. I wonder if a supplement is published about the Black Land, if going there would be considered a death wish.

Mordor, where the shadows lie, and heroes die.

J&M has a map of Mordor, with the difficulties for travelling through it, if you're interested. Of course, I imagine, that's less than half the story of an adventure that carries you to the Dark Lord's domain.

There was enormous navel gazing on this topic in the huge thread on this forum: "DnD® comes to Middle-earth®" Many passionate views were expressed there and if anyone somehow missed that thread and is interested in the topic, then that is the best place to look.

But frankly, until we see Adventures in Middle-earth, which may be very soon, the question remains entirely academic as otherwise we are just comparing the lengths of different pieces of string, one of which no one has seen. So I suggest that we keep our powder dry until there has been a sensible chance to digest Adventures in Middle-earth and an informed discussion can then occur. However, even then I suspect we will need to see just how many TOR products are published in the 12 months or so following the release of AIMe. Cubicle7 say they intend to support TOR, which assurance I for one believe, and so we should have faith in Dom, Jon and the C7 design team. What the ultimate future holds for TOR, only time will tell...

cheers
Mark

I think this is both a good move for the company and the franchise.

Increased potential player base, using already researched source material, I mean only really rules that needs changing.
And for the franchise, it means higher player base to pay for potential new source material.

And playing rpg's for so many years, I have no problem converting a good campaign from one system to the other.

I never liked the old ICE version of ME, this version is definitive how I pictured a ME game/campaign, and to be honest I have enough books now to run any campaign I want in the world.


I intend to buy the book, and see for myself if it's an improvement.